Re: pitch of notes when staff-lines = 1

Hi Nicolas,

These semantics are generally already covered in MusicXML with the <notehead>, <instrument>, and <play> elements. Sometimes software has difficulty transferring the playback though, due to the differences between MusicXML’s instrument model and the way different percussion sets are collected into virtual instruments. So the notation appearance tends to transfer better than the playback details.

Best regards,

Michael Good
VP of MusicXML Technologies
MakeMusic, Inc.

> On Jun 12, 2018, at 10:38 PM, Nicolas Martin <nicolas.martin@arobas-music.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> In percussions staves we need lines, spaces, but also note head and articulation to indicate which note is played on which instrument.
> For exemple Hit Hat is generally notated on G5 with three different note head (open/half open/closed) and on D4 (played with pedal).
> The snare drum commonly use three note head (hit, rimshot, side stick) on C5 or B4 (Berkeley/Agostini)
> It could be nice is a percussion set notation mapping could be define in the staff ({instrument, technique} => {pitch, articulation}) and then referring to this mapping in the note element.
> This kind of "percussion staff tuning" could add the missing semantic on percussion staves.
> 
> Sorry if that point was already discussed in the past.
> 
> Kind Regards,
> Nicolas.
> 
> 
> 2018-06-12 17:42 GMT+02:00 Michael Good <mgood@makemusic.com <mailto:mgood@makemusic.com>>:
> Hi Joe,
> 
> Lines and spaces carry semantic meaning in percussion staves, indicating instruments rather than pitches. So a CWMN format needs to semantically indicate the line and space on a percussion staff, not simply the Y coordinate. Since MusicXML already has that representation with step and octave, it seemed best to reuse those concepts exactly, but with different element names to ensure no confusion. This lets us use the same element structure for rests that are precisely positioned on a specific staff line, even though they also have no pitch.
> 
> This has worked well over the years and has lots of implementation experience behind it, so I think it makes sense to bring it over as-is to MNX-Common. Of course we should consider if there is are improvements we can make, but I think moving to a Y coordinate would be a step backwards.
> 
> I think this is true even with the “semantic Y” coordinate, which you described in a later email as I was writing this. I don’t see the value in using two semantic concepts for display on a lined staff when one concept works fine.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Michael Good
> VP of MusicXML Technologies
> MakeMusic, Inc.
> 
> 
>> On Jun 12, 2018, at 8:19 AM, Joe Berkovitz <joe@noteflight.com <mailto:joe@noteflight.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Michael,
>> 
>> Thinking about MNX here, what was the rationale behind using step/octave rather than a Y coordinate for an unpitched staff? I am sure there is a reason but I don't know it, and one point of view could be that step and octave are not concepts that make sense on an unpitched staff.
>> 
>> .            .       .    .  . ...Joe
>> 
>> Joe Berkovitz
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 4:43 PM, Michael Good <mgood@makemusic.com <mailto:mgood@makemusic.com>> wrote:
>> HI James,
>> 
>> Yes, the “if not present” refers to the unpitched element. And yes, it is an error to place pitched notes on a staff with a percussion clef, though I think many importers will handle that gracefully.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> Michael
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 8, 2018, at 11:55 AM, James Sutton <jsutton@dolphin-com.co.uk <mailto:jsutton@dolphin-com.co.uk>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks Michael,
>>> 
>>> Just for complete clarity. 
>>> 
>>> 1. "If not present". Does this refer to the percussion clef or the display-step elements?
>>> 2. Is it an error to place pitched notes on a staff with percussion clef?
>>> 
>>> best regards
>>> James Sutton
>>> Dolphin Computing
>>> http://www.dolphin-com.co.uk <http://www.dolphin-com.co.uk/>
>>> http://www.seescore.co.uk <http://www.dolphin-com.co.uk/>
>>> http://www.playscore.co <http://www.dolphin-com.co.uk/>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 8 Jun 2018, at 17:15, Michael Good <mgood@makemusic.com <mailto:mgood@makemusic.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi James,
>>>> 
>>>> This is documented in the MusicXML tutorial at http://www.musicxml.com/tutorial/percussion/staff-lines/ <http://www.musicxml.com/tutorial/percussion/staff-lines/>. It is also in the XSD documentation for the display-step-octave group: "If percussion clef is used, the display-step and display-octave elements are interpreted as if in treble clef, with a G in octave 4 on line 2. If not present, the note is placed on the middle line of the staff, generally used for a one-line staff.” The tutorial includes some examples.
>>>> 
>>>> Please let me know if this still seem unclear.
>>>> 
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Michael
>>>> 
>>>> Michael Good
>>>> VP of MusicXML Technologies
>>>> MakeMusic, Inc.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jun 8, 2018, at 1:57 AM, James Sutton <jsutton@dolphin-com.co.uk <mailto:jsutton@dolphin-com.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> What is the rule for placing pitched notes on a staff with staff-lines < 5 with a percussion clef (not TAB)?
>>>>> I cannot find this anywhere in the documentation
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> James Sutton
>>>>> Dolphin Computing
>>>>> http://www.dolphin-com.co.uk <http://www.dolphin-com.co.uk/>
>>>>> http://www.seescore.co.uk <http://www.dolphin-com.co.uk/>
>>>>> http://www.playscore.co <http://www.dolphin-com.co.uk/>
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Nicolas Martin
> Chef de projet // Arobas Music
> http://www.guitar-pro.com <http://www.guitar-pro.com/>