Re: element UIDs in MusicXML 3.1?

Thanks Michael,

We are hoping for an early 2017 release for this if possible as we have immediate need for it.

With best regards
James Sutton
Dolphin Computing
http://www.dolphin-com.co.uk <http://www.dolphin-com.co.uk/>
http://www.seescore.co.uk <http://www.dolphin-com.co.uk/>


> On 6 Dec 2016, at 22:10, Michael Good <mgood@makemusic.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks to James for proposing this addition to MusicXML 3.1, and for writing it up in GitHub as issue 145 at https://github.com/w3c/musicxml/issues/145 <https://github.com/w3c/musicxml/issues/145>.
> 
> I would like to add this to the scope of MusicXML 3.1 as I think James, Luca, Anthony, and others have made compelling arguments for its inclusion. There are several real-life application scenarios that we can make easier and more robust by adding this feature now, rather than waiting for a more universal solution with MNX.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Michael Good
> VP of MusicXML Technologies
> MakeMusic, Inc.
> 
>> On Sep 20, 2016, at 9:04 AM, Michael Good <mgood@makemusic.com <mailto:mgood@makemusic.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Joe, James, and all,
>> 
>> James is correct that you cannot just add xml:id attributes into MusicXML 3.0 documents and have them still be valid. While the xml:id attribute is referenced in the xml.xsd schema that is part of MusicXML 3.0, it is never used in the MusicXML schema. The xml.xsd schema is there so that MusicXML 3.0 can use the xml:lang and xml:space attributes in other areas such as the text-formatting attribute group.
>> 
>> James, could you please write up an issue for this at GitHub at https://github.com/w3c/musicxml/issues <https://github.com/w3c/musicxml/issues>? As long as we keep to your original proposal of adding this as an optional attribute to the 44 key elements you listed, there won't be any conflicts with the existing use of id as an IDREF in about 5 other elements. I would like to keep this as an unqualified id attribute for now, rather than using xml:id.
>> 
>> Thomas's suggestion of using xml:id is a promising way at approaching a universal solution in MusicXML 3.1. But I think the issue of having each element have a unique ID is something that might be best saved for MNX. The partial solution that James suggests seems like it handles several good use cases even if it is not universal, and should cause no confusion with existing MusicXML 3.0 features.
>> 
>> I would be happy to have that issue in scope for V3.1 if people think that would be useful, and not cause issues with forthcoming MNX work.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Michael Good
>> VP of MusicXML Technologies
>> MakeMusic, Inc.
>> 
>>> On Sep 20, 2016, at 3:34 AM, Joe Berkovitz <joe@noteflight.com <mailto:joe@noteflight.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi James.
>>> 
>>> I do not have any expertise with using xml:id in validating parsers -- it seems like a feasible idea, but perhaps real-world support for it is lacking. Although it's technically not necessary, you might be able to define the xml namespace explicitly in the root element of the document using the attribute xmlns:xml="http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace <http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace>"
>>> 
>>> In the forthcoming MNX proposal we will address element ids in a uniform way that does not require use of the xml namespace, although unfortunately that doesn't help you now.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> .            .       .    .  . ...Joe
>>> 
>>> Joe Berkovitz
>>> President
>>> Noteflight LLC
>>> 
>>> +1 978 314 6271
>>> 
>>> 49R Day Street
>>> Somerville MA 02144
>>> USA
>>> 
>>> "Bring music to life"
>>> www.noteflight.com <http://www.noteflight.com/>
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 3:54 AM, James Sutton <jsutton@dolphin-com.co.uk <mailto:jsutton@dolphin-com.co.uk>> wrote:
>>> Hi Joe and other XML experts,
>>> 
>>> The validating parser which I use (CodeSynthesis xsd/e) does not allow addition of xml:id attributes into arbitrary MusicXML elements. The designer of this parser says that the attribute need to be explicitly defined in elements (see http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14198166/validating-xml-with-attributes-in-namespace-xml <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14198166/validating-xml-with-attributes-in-namespace-xml>)
>>> 
>>> I found an online validating parser (http://www.xmlforasp.net/schemavalidator.aspx <http://www.xmlforasp.net/schemavalidator.aspx>) to test the attached MusicXML file against the MusicXML schema, and it did not allow the xml:id attribute. (I also checked it permitted the same file without the xml:id). There are many online validators but most did not work at all!
>>> 
>>> Any other views on this? Any other validating parsers been tried
>>> 
>>> with best regards
>>> James Sutton
>>> Dolphin Computing
>>> http://www.dolphin-com.co.uk <http://www.dolphin-com.co.uk/>
>>> http://www.seescore.co.uk <http://www.dolphin-com.co.uk/>
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 19 Sep 2016, at 17:03, Joe Berkovitz <joe@noteflight.com <mailto:joe@noteflight.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Sorry to be coming back to this so late in the thread.
>>>> 
>>>> MusicXML seems to already specify that xml:id can be used as per Thomas Weber's suggestion, independently of the "id" attribute as defined in MusicXML: http://www.musicxml.com/for-developers/musicxml-xsd/xml-namespace/ <http://www.musicxml.com/for-developers/musicxml-xsd/xml-namespace/>
>>>> 
>>>> This would be an area that I would want to clarify in MNX by avoiding use of any MusicXML-specific "id" attributes, so that there is no potential for conflict. I see xml:id as ultimately becoming the only "id" attribute.
>>>> 
>>>> .            .       .    .  . ...Joe
>>>> 
>>>> Joe Berkovitz
>>>> President
>>>> Noteflight LLC
>>>> 
>>>> +1 978 314 6271 <tel:%2B1%20978%20314%206271>
>>>> 
>>>> 49R Day Street
>>>> Somerville MA 02144
>>>> USA
>>>> 
>>>> "Bring music to life"
>>>> www.noteflight.com <http://www.noteflight.com/>
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 9:05 PM, Thomas Weber <tw@notabit.eu <mailto:tw@notabit.eu>> wrote:
>>>> Am 03.08.2016 um 18:18 schrieb Michael Good:
>>>> > Unfortunately we can't quite do the "every element has an id attribute that is an ID type" proposal without breaking compatibility with earlier MusicXML versions. MusicXML 3.0 already has several commonly-used elements where the id attribute is an IDREF rather than an ID.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> 
>>>> Standards to the rescue:  With xml:id attributes, there's no incompatibilities with earlier versions.
>>>> 
>>>>   https://www.w3.org/TR/xml-id/ <https://www.w3.org/TR/xml-id/>
>>>> 
>