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issue-127 Re: Clarifing overriding and global rules of translate in HTML5 (Re: ITS 2.0 sec1-2 editing current state)

From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 20:26:30 +0200
Message-ID: <51ACDFD6.4030500@w3.org>
To: Yves Savourel <ysavourel@enlaso.com>
CC: public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org
Hi Yves,

thanks. I tried to make the edits, see

does this look ok? This is now



  Am 31.05.13 13:26, schrieb Yves Savourel:
> Hi Felix,
> +1 for both proposals.
> Another thing: In example 10
> (http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/examples/html5/EX-its-and-existing-HTML5-markup.html)
> We say: "The em element is interpreted to be withinText="yes"." It should be " The elements em and img are interpreted to be
> withinText="yes"."
> We also say: "The img element is set to be translatable via an [HTML5] translate attribute. Here the alt attribute will also be
> translatable."
> But the translate attribute is on <p> not <img>. (The effect is the same, but the text not completely correct).
> It may be also to better use translate='no' since translate='yes' is just doing the same as the default behavior.
> We say "The p element and its children is set to be non-translatable via an [HTML5] translate attribute. Here the alt attribute,
> normally translatable by default, will also be non-translatable."
> Or something of that effect.
> -ys
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Felix Sasaki [mailto:fsasaki@w3.org]
> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 11:57 PM
> To: Yves Savourel
> Cc: public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org
> Subject: Clarifing overriding and global rules of translate in HTML5 (Re: ITS 2.0 sec1-2 editing current state)
> Hi Yves,
> thanks a lot for reading carefully. I think we should update the normative part of the spec and explanatory section
> Am 30.05.13 21:19, schrieb Yves Savourel:
>> Just one note on
>> "The Translate data category has a direct counterpart in [HTML5],
>> namely the HTML5 translate attribute. ITS 2.0 does not define its own behaviour for HTML5 translate, but just refers to the HTML5
> definition."
>> (BYW it should be the US spelling "behavior" not "behavior")
>> Sorry to bring it back... but:
>> The HTML5 definition of translate does not talk about global rules obviously.
>> So what is a developer is to do for global Translate rules in HTML5?
>> Does it applies the property applies to the attributes of the selected nodes too (unlike XML?). I assume so, but it's not written
> anywhere in either of the specifications.
> Agree. We should add a sentence to the translate section saying that the
> HTML5 definition also applies nodes selected with global rules. E.g., if you h
> //h:img translate="no"
> also the "alt" attribute at the "img" element will not be translatable.
> Is that what you have in mind?
>> Note also that we have a note in the Translate section
>> (http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20-for-editing-sec1-sec2.html#trans-datacat) that says:
>> "It is not possible to override the Translate data category settings
>> of attributes using local markup. This limitation is consistent with
>> the advised practice of not using translatable attributes. If attributes need to be translatable (e.g., an HTML alt attribute),
> then this must be declared globally."
>> I don't think the note is completely applicable for HTML5: if you
>> apply the HTML5 behavior you do override the Translate setting of
>> attributes using local markup. The alt example is a good example of that. At the same time it's true that you cannot define an
> override on *only* an attribute using local markup (even in HTML5).
> Also agree. We should update that note saying that it talks about XML only and for HTML5 the overriding works like exemplified
> above. Would that work?
> Best,
> Felix
>> -ys
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Felix Sasaki [mailto:fsasaki@w3.org]
>> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 11:40 AM
>> To: public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org
>> Subject: ITS 2.0 sec1-2 editing current state
>> Hi all,
>> I did some editing in sec 1.4 and discussed during the editing call
>> with Dave. See the outcome here
>> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20-
>> for-editing-sec1-sec2.html#high-level-differences-between-1.0-
>> and-2.0
>> except "1.4.4 Additional or modified mechanisms" and "1.4.7 Extended implementation hints"
>> sec. 1.4 has all content we discussed yesterday
>> http://www.w3.org/2013/05/29-mlw-lt-minutes.html#item07
>> Any comments? Next call would be Monday 13 UTC
>> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20130603T13
>> for 1 hour.
>> Best,
>> Felix
Received on Monday, 3 June 2013 18:26:43 UTC

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