- From: Pablo Nieto Caride <pablo.nieto@linguaserve.com>
- Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 17:28:38 +0100
- To: "'Felix Sasaki'" <fsasaki@w3.org>, <public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <007201ce03bd$da39b3c0$8ead1b40$@linguaserve.com>
Thanks! Felix Cheers, __________________________________ Pablo Nieto Caride Dpto. Técnico/I+D+i Linguaserve Internacionalización de Servicios, S.A. Tel.: +34 91 761 64 60 ext. 0422 Fax: +34 91 542 89 28 E-mail: <mailto:pablo.nieto@linguaserve.com> pablo.nieto@linguaserve.com www.linguaserve.com <http://www.linguaserve.com/> «En cumplimiento con lo previsto con los artículos 21 y 22 de la Ley 34/2002, de 11 de julio, de Servicios de la Sociedad de Información y Comercio Electrónico, le informamos que procederemos al archivo y tratamiento de sus datos exclusivamente con fines de promoción de los productos y servicios ofrecidos por LINGUASERVE INTERNACIONALIZACIÓN DE SERVICIOS, S.A. 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Your request will be processed immediately.” __________________________________ De: Felix Sasaki [mailto:fsasaki@w3.org] Enviado el: martes, 05 de febrero de 2013 16:52 Para: public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org Asunto: agenda+ for Wednesday (WG Draft about high level use cases (Re: [ISSUE-75] - Domain - 2.a. [ACTION-434])) Hi all, this is to resolve Pablo's comment on the wiki link. Dave, I can't be on the Wednesday call, but could you discuss this topic: "publising http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Use_cases_-_high_lev el_summary as a w3c working draft (not a final document) before Rome" With the aim to finally publish it as a "note" (= an informative best practice document). Needed to for that would be by 18 February: - a "clean up" of sections, so that they don't contain coments any more and follow the style of http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Use_cases_-_high_lev el_summary#Simple_Machine_Translation - useful links to tool demos or further info if available) - sometimes re-naming and editing, e.g. http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Use_cases_-_high_lev el_summary#Annotation_of_Named_Entities to "text analysis annotation"? see issue-68 Per partner this would actually not be a lot of work: I assume 1-2 hours. Dave, could you discuss whether people would be available to do that by 18 February? I would then take care of a short introduction. Conversion to a working draft format will happen on the fly, see http://services.w3.org/xslt?xmlfile=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FInternational% 2Fmultilingualweb%2Flt%2Fwiki%2FUse_cases_-_high_level_summary <http://services.w3.org/xslt?xmlfile=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FInternational %2Fmultilingualweb%2Flt%2Fwiki%2FUse_cases_-_high_level_summary&specinfo=htt p%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2012%2F05%2Fwiki2spec%2Fwiki2spec-parameters.html&xsl file=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2012%2F05%2Fwiki2spec%2Fwiki2spec.xsl> &specinfo=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2012%2F05%2Fwiki2spec%2Fwiki2spec-parame ters.html&xslfile=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2012%2F05%2Fwiki2spec%2Fwiki2spe c.xsl proposal of the location of the draft and name: http://www.w3.org/TR/mlw-metadata-uc-impl "Metadata for the Multilingual Web - Use Cases and Implementations" Thanks, Felix Am 05.02.13 16:17, schrieb Pablo Nieto Caride: Hi, It also works for me, although as I think I mentioned before I don't know whether to use links to the wiki is appropriate or not. Cheers, Pablo. That works for me Thanks, Jan ________________________________________ From: Lieske, Christian [christian.lieske@sap.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 5:35 AM To: public-multilingualweb-lt-comments@w3.org Cc: joerg@bioloom.de Subject: RE: [ISSUE-75] - Domain - 2.a. [ACTION-434] Hi, I had an action item to re-write the note related to "domainMapping" in "multi-engine" scenarios. Here is comes ... Cheers, Christian == Although the focus of ITS 2.0, and some of the usage scenarios addressed in ITS 2.0 showcases (see http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Use_cases_-_high_lev el_summary#ITS_2.0_Metadata:_Work-In-Context_Showcase) is on “single engine” environments, ITS 2.0 - for example in the context of the "domain" data category - can accommodate "workflow/multi engine" scenarios. Example: - A scenario involves Machine Translation (MT) engines A and B. The domain labels used by engine A follow the naming scheme A_123, the one for engine B follow the naming scheme B_456. - A "domainMapping" like the following is in place: domainMapping="'sports law' Legal, 'property law' Legal" - Engine A maps 'Legal' to A_4711, Engine B maps 'Legal' to B_42. Thus, ITS does not encode a process or workflow (like "Use MT engine A with domain A_4711, and use MT engine B with domain A_42"). Rather, it encodes information that can be used in workflows. -----Original Message----- From: Jörg Schütz [mailto:joerg@bioloom.de] Sent: Mittwoch, 30. Januar 2013 09:37 To: public-multilingualweb-lt-comments@w3.org Subject: Re: [ISSUE-75] - Domain - 2.a. incl. 2.b. and 1. Hi Felix and all, Here is my suggestion for a note (native speakers please correct): Bear in mind that ITS is first and foremost a powerful markup technology to add metadata to (Web) content. In this sense, it is not a (direct) means to support, or even drive process or workflow engines, although some of the data categories like provenance, domain, domain mapping, etc. may induce such a view. Since this ITS metadata enhances the content in a structured way and in multiple forms, ITS consuming agents can employ that data to effectively implement their usage or deployment scenarios within single engine or single process environments as well as within multi-engine environments such as "try MT engine A, then MT engine B, ..." (see also ITS 2.0 showcases at http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Use_cases_-_high_lev el_summary#ITS_2.0_Metadata:_Work-In-Context_Showcase). It is, however, not possible to assign, say, a specific domain mapping incarnation to a certain (process or workflow) instance because such an assignment concerns the process side, and this is beyond the current ITS metadata scope. With this, we now have apparently reached consensus on 2.a., 2.b. (already reviewed by Christian), and 1. (shepherd's view...) [@Yves: 1. is independent of the domain mapping specs.] Cheers -- Jörg On Jan 29, 2013, at 18:15 (CET), Felix Sasaki wrote: Hi Jan, all, thanks a lot for the initial note, Christian, and for comments in this thread. It seems that Yves made clear that “try MT engine A, then MT engine B” may indeed work with the ITS domain mechanism - but there is a lot of white spaces including “try MT engine A with domain ‘financials’, then try MT engine B with domain ‘healthcare’” and layering of many other processing types. So maybe a final note could concentrate on these white spaces? Anybody volunteering to re-write the note? Best, Felix Am 29.01.13 17:15, schrieb Jan Nelson: I find it a reasonable practice to define what is not in scope as a part of any specification, though agree that clear statements of in scope features are crucial. I am curious about how a multi-engine selection/validation process works. Christian, you mentioned both TM services as well as MT engines. I can see value to be able to call from a set of services depending on domain with fallback based on result quality scores. And you state that ITS 2.0 might be a single service scoped spec. Yves, you believe that there is support for more than one MT engine as currently spec'd. My interest in the white spaces between the two comments are when layering n-services of differing processing types, e.g., fuzzy matching TM services versus statistical MT engine results and how that plays out. It seems very ambitious to me to provide scope for this, and yet having a system that is capable of providing the kinds of metadata needed to enable it would be a pretty powerful in terms of the potential to provide hi-fi results. Maybe my comments are far out of scope, but the thread here caught my attention. If this the case, I am happy to discuss it more offline, perhaps in Rome over a coffee. Jan ________________________________________ From: Yves Savourel [ysavourel@enlaso.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 7:55 AM To: public-multilingualweb-lt-comments@w3.org Subject: RE: [ISSUE-75] - Domain - 2.a. Hi Christian, all, I’m always a bit uncomfortable with stating what a mechanism is NOT doing in a specification. It seems we should be able to define what it does do and that should be sufficient. I would also argue that the scenario “try MT engine A, then MT engine B” can work perfectly well with what we have today. The specification provides domainMapping for some basic mappings that allow for example to point multiple keywords to a more common unique 'domain' label. For example you have a mapping as this: domainMapping="'sports law' Legal, 'property law' Legal" and two MT engines: they each have a user-defined table that provide additional re-direction (they are even possibly pair specific: one maps 'Legal' to 'LEGAL_EN_PT' and the other maps 'Legal' to '5242e0762354527_legal'. Using domainMapping for more than simple grouping is bound to have quick limitations: a) what if you add a third MT engine? You have to edit every single rules document to add the new mapping? b) how do you map to engine that are defined per pair? IMO the mapping to the values used to slect the MT engine belongs to the process side, not the input. cheers, -yves From: Lieske, Christian [mailto:christian.lieske@sap.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 8:11 AM To: public-multilingualweb-lt-comments@w3.org Subject: [ISSUE-75] - Domain - 2.a. Hi, One of my comments related to “domain” (see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comment s/2013Jan/0022.html) was the following: 2.a. Domain "systems" may not be harmonized across a processing chain. A Translation Memory component may for example work with different domains than a Machine Translation system that is part of the same processing chain. Since ITS 2.0 "domain" currently does not allow to capture the information "This is for component X" these scenarios cannot be addressed. During the face-to-face in Prague, we achieved the following status (see http://www.w3.org/2013/01/23-mlw-lt-minutes.html#item09): a note should explain that “domain” (and possibly other data categories) do not accommodate what could be called multi-engine scenario. Here is my suggestion for a note … The focus of ITS 2.0, and some of the usage scenarios addressed in ITS 2.0 showcases (see http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Use_cases_-_h igh_level_summary#ITS_2.0_Metadata:_Work-In-Context_Showcase) is on “single engine” environments. Example: the Machine Translation (MT) usage scenarios do not work along the lines of process chains such as “try MT engine A, then MT engine B”. Accordingly, ITS 2.0 has few provisions to support this kind of “multi-engine” environments which for example require domain-related information such as “try MT engine A with domain ‘financials’, then try MT engine B with domain ‘healthcare’”. Cheers, Christian
Received on Tuesday, 5 February 2013 16:29:09 UTC