- From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
- Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 11:13:53 +0200
- To: Sebastian Hellmann <hellmann@informatik.uni-leipzig.de>
- Cc: Tadej Stajner <tadej.stajner@ijs.si>, "public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org" <public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org>, "raphael.troncy@eurecom.fr" <raphael.troncy@eurecom.fr>, "pablomendes@gmail.com" <pablomendes@gmail.com>, "Giuseppe.Rizzo@eurecom.fr" <Giuseppe.Rizzo@eurecom.fr>
- Message-ID: <CAL58czrOOBzFZEZL6bc3GM5ENv08WV8cBLVNywhRNKH0UJ5CsQ@mail.gmail.com>
Hi Sebastian, 2012/8/20 Sebastian Hellmann <hellmann@informatik.uni-leipzig.de> > Hi Felix, > your proposal is based on the assumption, that more data is available at > these three URLs: > > http:/nerd.eurecom.fr/**ontology#Place<http://nerd.eurecom.fr/ontology#Place> > http://dbpedia.org/resource/**Dublin <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Dublin> > http://www.w3.org/2006/03/wn/**wn20/instances/worsense-**capital-noun-3<http://www.w3.org/2006/03/wn/wn20/instances/worsense-capital-noun-3> > > While this assumption is ok for the Semantic Web, I am not sure about the > ITS world. > You are right that in the "ITS world" one cannot be sure that more data is available. But I would argue that implementors who process links also in the ITS world very likely need to know (not automatically, but as a prerequisite for implementation ) what the URL is about. So I'd rather encourage implementors towards that "Semantic Web like" approach than defining so many attributes. Feedback from the people who want to process "disambiguation" without Semantic Web processing is of course very important here. > > Furthermore, if you are attempting to minimize it, I would suggest to > merge > "its-entity-type-ident-ref" into "its-disambig-type-ref". You wouldn't be > limited to entity types and could use any of: > Makes sense to me, thanks for the proposal - let's see what Tadej and others say. Best, Felix > > - http:/nerd.eurecom.fr/**ontology#Place<http://nerd.eurecom.fr/ontology#Place> > - http://dbpedia.org/ontology/**Place <http://dbpedia.org/ontology/Place> > - http://www.monnet-project.eu/**lemon#LexicalSense<http://www.monnet-project.eu/lemon#LexicalSense> > - http://www.monnet-project.eu/**lemon#LexicalEntry<http://www.monnet-project.eu/lemon#LexicalEntry> > - http://wordnet.princeton.edu/**wndatamodel#NounWordSense<http://wordnet.princeton.edu/wndatamodel#NounWordSense> > - http://wordnet.princeton.edu/**wndatamodel#Synset<http://wordnet.princeton.edu/wndatamodel#Synset> > > All the best, > Sebastian > > Am 20.08.2012 09:44, schrieb Felix Sasaki: > >> Hi Sebastian, all, >> >> thanks, Sebastian. From what you say in the wiki and in the previous mail, >> I think one could simplify things a lot. >> >> The HTML example from Tadej *could* look like this: >> >> <html lang="en"> >> >> <head> >> >> <meta charset="utf-8" /> >> >> <title>Entity: Local Test</title> >> >> </head> >> >> <body> >> >> <p><span >> >> its-entity-type-ident-ref="**http:/nerd.eurecom.fr/**ontology#Place<http://nerd.eurecom.fr/ontology#Place> >> " >> >> its-disambig-ident-ref="http:/**/dbpedia.org/resource/Dublin<http://dbpedia.org/resource/Dublin> >> ">**Dublin</span> >> is the <span >> >> its-disambig-ident-ref=" >> http://www.w3.org/2006/03/wn/**wn20/instances/worsense-**capital-noun-3<http://www.w3.org/2006/03/wn/wn20/instances/worsense-capital-noun-3> >> ">capital</span> >> of Ireland.</p> >> >> </body> >> >> </html> >> >> That is, no explicit "resource" references for entity type and >> disambiguation source, and no disambig-type. >> >> Also, I think one could get rid of adding this kind of information via >> global rules - I really don't see a use case for that. >> >> Tadej, others, thoughts? Maybe Yves as one of the implementors processing >> the output and other have some thoughts too? >> >> Best, >> >> Felix >> >> 2012/8/17 Sebastian Hellmann <hellmann@informatik.uni-**leipzig.de<hellmann@informatik.uni-leipzig.de> >> > >> >> Dear Felix, >>> to solve this issue I prepared a page: >>> http://wiki.nlp2rdf.org/wiki/****DBpedia_Spotlight<http://wiki.nlp2rdf.org/wiki/**DBpedia_Spotlight> >>> <http://**wiki.nlp2rdf.org/wiki/DBpedia_**Spotlight<http://wiki.nlp2rdf.org/wiki/DBpedia_Spotlight> >>> > >>> >>> It is a rough draft, so there are many mistakes, still. Once it is >>> mature, >>> I will send it to the DBpedia Spotlight and Apache Stanbol lists to get >>> their feedback. >>> Note that I don't have a problem with these properties as XML attributes, >>> where they can naturally occur only once and encoding an implicit >>> dependency (attribute refering to another attribute) is unproblematic. >>> They >>> are, however, difficult to handle in RDF, even when declaring them >>> functional. >>> I will report back, if there are any news, >>> >>> All the best, >>> Sebastian >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Am 14.08.2012 21:34, schrieb Felix Sasaki: >>> >>> Hi Sebastian, all, >>>> >>>> August is taking its tribute ... I am wondering if there any thoughts on >>>> Sebastian's mail below. It seems that some of the proposed ITS >>>> attributes >>>> are not needed, but I don't have the competence to evaluate this. >>>> Thoughts >>>> from others? Sebastian, could you confirm that the output mentioned in >>>> this other thread >>>> >>>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/****Public/public-**multilingualweb-**<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/**Public/public-multilingualweb-**> >>>> lt/2012Aug/0168.html<http://**lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/** >>>> public-multilingualweb-lt/**2012Aug/0168.html<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Aug/0168.html> >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> is correct for NIF? I then would create a test case for our test suite, >>>> see >>>> >>>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/****Public/public-**multilingualweb-**<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/**Public/public-multilingualweb-**> >>>> lt-tests/2012Aug/0003.html<htt**p://lists.w3.org/Archives/** >>>> Public/public-multilingualweb-**lt-tests/2012Aug/0003.html<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-tests/2012Aug/0003.html> >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Felix >>>> >>>> Am Donnerstag, 9. August 2012 schrieb Sebastian Hellmann : >>>> >>>> Hi Felix, >>>> >>>>> below mostly my opinion on this. Nothing, wrong with including these >>>>> properties, but they might not make sense in RDF. If you think, that >>>>> there >>>>> are people who would really use these properties in RDF, then go ahead >>>>> and >>>>> include them. Personally, *I* wouldn't know for what *I* could use >>>>> them. >>>>> More comments inline. >>>>> >>>>> Am 09.08.2012 15:20, schrieb Felix Sasaki: >>>>> >>>>> its:entityTypeSourceRef >>>>> >>>>>> I really do not find this property helpful. >>>>>> >>>>> Do you see any sense in saying that http://dbpedia.org/resource/******<http://dbpedia.org/resource/****> >>>>> Dublin <http://dbpedia.org/resource/****Dublin<http://dbpedia.org/resource/**Dublin> >>>>> ><http://dbpedia.org/** >>>>> resource/Dublin <http://dbpedia.org/resource/**Dublin<http://dbpedia.org/resource/Dublin>>>is >>>>> from >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://dbpedia.org ? In the linked data world >>>>> http://dbpedia.org/resource/ >>>>> **Dublin <http://dbpedia.org/resource/****Dublin<http://dbpedia.org/resource/**Dublin> >>>>> <http://dbpedia.org/**resource/Dublin<http://dbpedia.org/resource/Dublin> >>>>> >> >>>>> comes from >>>>> http://dbpedia.org/resource/******Dublin<http://dbpedia.org/resource/****Dublin> >>>>> <http://dbpedia.org/**resource/**Dublin<http://dbpedia.org/resource/**Dublin> >>>>> >< >>>>> >>>>> http://dbpedia.org/resource/****Dublin<http://dbpedia.org/resource/**Dublin> >>>>> <http://dbpedia.org/**resource/Dublin<http://dbpedia.org/resource/Dublin> >>>>> >>. >>>>> So you might specify a way to convert that to ITS, but we might not >>>>> need >>>>> >>>>> an RDF property for this. >>>>> >>>>> its:disambigType >>>>> >>>>> "(http://www.w3.org/2005/11/******its/lexicalConcept|<http://www.w3.org/2005/11/****its/lexicalConcept%7C> >>>>>> <http://**www.w3.org/2005/11/**its/**lexicalConcept%7C<http://www.w3.org/2005/11/**its/lexicalConcept%7C> >>>>>> > >>>>>> <http://**www.w3.org/2005/11/**its/**lexicalConcept%7C<http://www.w3.org/2005/11/its/**lexicalConcept%7C> >>>>>> <http:/**/www.w3.org/2005/11/its/**lexicalConcept%7C<http://www.w3.org/2005/11/its/lexicalConcept%7C> >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://www.w3.org/2005/11/its/******ontologyConcept|http://** >>>>>> www.**w3.**<http://www.w3.org/2005/11/its/****ontologyConcept%7Chttp://www.**w3.**> >>>>>> <http://www.w3.org/**2005/11/its/**ontologyConcept%** >>>>>> 7Chttp://www.w3.**<http://www.w3.org/2005/11/its/**ontologyConcept%7Chttp://www.w3.**> >>>>>> > >>>>>> org/2005/11/its/<http://www.****w3.org/2005/11/its/**<http://w3.org/2005/11/its/**> >>>>>> ontologyConcept%7Chttp://www.****w3.org/2005/11/its/<http://** >>>>>> www.w3.org/2005/11/its/**ontologyConcept%7Chttp://www.** >>>>>> w3.org/2005/11/its/<http://www.w3.org/2005/11/its/ontologyConcept%7Chttp://www.w3.org/2005/11/its/> >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> entity)" >>>>>> >>>>>> I am unsure about this one. >>>>>> >>>>> its:entityTypeRef >>>>> is already rdf:type, so it would be a duplicate to have >>>>> its:entityTypeRef >>>>> in RDF. For http://dbpedia.org/resource/******Dublin<http://dbpedia.org/resource/****Dublin> >>>>> <http://dbpedia.org/**resource/**Dublin<http://dbpedia.org/resource/**Dublin> >>>>> > >>>>> <http://dbpedia.org/****resource/Dublin<http://dbpedia.org/**resource/Dublin> >>>>> <http://**dbpedia.org/resource/Dublin<http://dbpedia.org/resource/Dublin> >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>>> its:**entityTypeRef would be one of: >>>>>> >>>>> http://dbpedia.org/ontology/******PopulatedPlace<http://dbpedia.org/ontology/****PopulatedPlace> >>>>> <http://**dbpedia.org/ontology/****PopulatedPlace<http://dbpedia.org/ontology/**PopulatedPlace> >>>>> > >>>>> <http://dbpedia.**org/**ontology/PopulatedPlace<http:/** >>>>> /dbpedia.org/ontology/**PopulatedPlace<http://dbpedia.org/ontology/PopulatedPlace> >>>>> > >>>>> http://dbpedia.org/ontology/******Settlement<http://dbpedia.org/ontology/****Settlement> >>>>> <http://dbpedia.**org/ontology/**Settlement<http://dbpedia.org/ontology/**Settlement> >>>>> > >>>>> <http://dbpedia.org/****ontology/Settlement<http://dbpedia.org/**ontology/Settlement> >>>>> <http://**dbpedia.org/ontology/**Settlement<http://dbpedia.org/ontology/Settlement> >>>>> > >>>>> http://umbel.org/umbel/rc/******PopulatedPlace<http://umbel.org/umbel/rc/****PopulatedPlace> >>>>> <http://umbel.**org/umbel/rc/**PopulatedPlace<http://umbel.org/umbel/rc/**PopulatedPlace> >>>>> > >>>>> <http://umbel.**org/umbel/rc/**PopulatedPlace<http://umbel.** >>>>> org/umbel/rc/PopulatedPlace <http://umbel.org/umbel/rc/PopulatedPlace> >>>>> > >>>>> http://dbpedia.org/ontology/******Place<http://dbpedia.org/ontology/****Place> >>>>> <http://dbpedia.org/**ontology/**Place<http://dbpedia.org/ontology/**Place> >>>>> >< >>>>> http://dbpedia.org/ontology/****Place<http://dbpedia.org/ontology/**Place>< >>>>> http://dbpedia.org/ontology/**Place<http://dbpedia.org/ontology/Place> >>>>> >> >>>>> http://umbel.org/umbel/rc/******Village<http://umbel.org/umbel/rc/****Village> >>>>> <http://umbel.org/**umbel/rc/**Village<http://umbel.org/umbel/rc/**Village> >>>>> >< >>>>> http://umbel.org/umbel/rc/****Village<http://umbel.org/umbel/rc/**Village>< >>>>> http://umbel.org/umbel/rc/**Village<http://umbel.org/umbel/rc/Village> >>>>> >> >>>>> http://umbel.org/umbel/rc/******Location_Underspecified<http://umbel.org/umbel/rc/****Location_Underspecified> >>>>> <http:/**/umbel.org/umbel/rc/****Location_Underspecified<http://umbel.org/umbel/rc/**Location_Underspecified> >>>>> > >>>>> <http:/**/umbel.org/umbel/rc/**Location_**Underspecified<http://umbel.org/umbel/rc/Location_**Underspecified> >>>>> <http**://umbel.org/umbel/rc/**Location_Underspecified<http://umbel.org/umbel/rc/Location_Underspecified> >>>>> > >>>>> http://schema.org/Place >>>>> http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#******Thing<http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#****Thing> >>>>> <http://www.w3.org/**2002/07/owl#**Thing<http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#**Thing> >>>>> > >>>>> <http://www.w3.org/**2002/07/**owl#Thing<http://www.w3.org/**2002/07/owl#Thing> >>>>> <http://www.w3.org/**2002/07/owl#Thing<http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#Thing> >>>>> > >>>>> http://www.opengis.net/gml/_******Feature<http://www.opengis.net/gml/_****Feature> >>>>> <http://www.opengis.**net/gml/_**Feature<http://www.opengis.net/gml/_**Feature> >>>>> > >>>>> <http://www.opengis.**net/gml/**_Feature<http://www.opengis.** >>>>> net/gml/_Feature <http://www.opengis.net/gml/_Feature>> >>>>> + >>>>> http:/nerd.eurecom.fr/******ontology#Place<http://nerd.eurecom.fr/****ontology#Place> >>>>> <http://nerd.**eurecom.fr/**ontology#Place<http://nerd.eurecom.fr/**ontology#Place> >>>>> > >>>>> <http://nerd.**eurecom.fr/**ontology#Place<http://eurecom.fr/ontology#Place> >>>>> <http://nerd.**eurecom.fr/ontology#Place<http://nerd.eurecom.fr/ontology#Place> >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If you have a Problem with this plurality. Then it might be good to >>>>> include an annotation property its:preferedEntityTypeRef >>>>> So the data is there already in RDF, the problem is rather to find a >>>>> way >>>>> to convert it back to ITS. >>>>> >>>>> All the best, >>>>> Sebastian >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Felix >>>>> >>>>> 2012/8/9 Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for this, Tadej, looks good. There is just one comment I >>>>> don't >>>>> see >>>>> reflected: >>>>> >>>>> 7) A question on the data category in general and the "rules" element: >>>>> does it make sense to make some attributes mandatory? Currently, this >>>>> would >>>>> be valid: >>>>> <its:disambiguation selector="/text/body/p[@id='******dublin']/> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> It seems that still all metadata items / attributes are optional. Is >>>>> there >>>>> a way to be more specific about what must or must not appear together, >>>>> what >>>>> is optional etc? >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Felix >>>>> >>>>> 2012/8/9 Tadej Stajner <tadej.stajner@ijs.si> >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> thanks for the tips. I covered them, and I agree towards removing >>>>> the >>>>> local XPath, since it has very limited use. Here is another >>>>> incorporating >>>>> all these comments. >>>>> -- Tadej >>>>> >>>>> On 8/3/2012 1:07 PM, Felix Sasaki wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Tadej, all, >>>>> >>>>> thanks a lot for this. Just a few comments / questions: >>>>> >>>>> 1) About "The information applies to the textual content of the >>>>> element, including child elements and attributes.": wouldn't it make >>>>> more >>>>> sense to say that this applies to only the content of the element? E.g. >>>>> if >>>>> you annotate the "span" element in >>>>> >>>>> <p>I have seen <span id="timbl"><span class="firstame">Tim</span> >>>>> <span >>>>> class="lastname">Berners-Lee</******span></span> in the olympics >>>>> opening >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ceremony</p> >>>>> >>>>> You want to express disambiguation information about the "span" >>>>> element >>>>> with the "id" attribute, but not about the "id" attribute or the nested >>>>> span elements. So inheritance probably should be: "There is no >>>>> inheritance". What do you think? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2) About "The Entity data category can be expressed with global >>>>> rules, >>>>> or locally on an individual element.": This should probably be "The >>>>> Disambiguation data category can be expressed with global rules, or >>>>> locally >>>>> on an individual element." >>>>> >>>>> 3) About local markup: for other data categories, we don't have the >>>>> "pointer" attributes as local markup, since processing of XPath in >>>>> local >>>>> markup can be very expensive. So I would propose to drop the local >>>>> pointer >>>>> attributes here too. >>>>> >>>>> 4) In the table at the end, "Global pointing to existing >>>>> information" >>>>> should be "yes" I think. >>>>> >>>>> 5) This selector >>>>> <its:disambiguation selector="/text/body/p/#******dublin" ... >>>>> In XPath should be >>>>> <its:disambiguation selector="/text/body/p[@id='******dublin'] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 6) To follow the conventions from other data categories, the >>>>> "its:disambiguation" element should probably be called >>>>> "its:disambiguationRule". >>>>> >>>>> 7) A question on the data category in general and the "rules" >>>>> element: >>>>> does it make sense to make some attributes mandatory? Currently, this >>>>> would >>>>> be valid: >>>>> <its:disambiguation selector="/text/body/p[@id='******dublin']/> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 8) A question to the others in this thread (Guiseppe, Pablo, >>>>> Raphael, >>>>> Sebastian): is this a representation that makes sense to you and that >>>>> your >>>>> tools could produce? >>>>> >>>>> 9) A question to the MT guys: is the way "entity and >>>>> disambiguation" >>>>> information is represented here useful for you? >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Felix >>>>> >>>>> 2012/8/3 Tadej Štajner <tadej.stajner@ijs.si> >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> I incorporated some comments that 'entity' was still conflated from >>>>> several distinct things in the data category proposal. Now, we >>>>> distinguish >>>>> between disambiguation of word sense, ontology concept and entity >>>>> instance. >>>>> Following that, it seems that 'Disambiguation' was the better name for >>>>> the >>>>> data category. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for everyone's input! >>>>> >>>>> -- Tadej >>>>> >>>>> On 02. 08. 2012 17:26, Tadej Štajner wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Apologies -- wrong link on the previous mail. This is the relevant >>>>> one: >>>>> http://www.w3.org/******International/multilingualweb/****<http://www.w3.org/****International/multilingualweb/**> >>>>> **lt/track/actions/181<http://**www.w3.org/**International/** >>>>> multilingualweb/**lt/track/**actions/181<http://www.w3.org/**International/multilingualweb/**lt/track/actions/181> >>>>> > >>>>> <http://**www.w3.org/**International/****multilingualweb/lt/track/**<http://www.w3.org/International/**multilingualweb/lt/track/**> >>>>> >>>>> actions/181<http://www.w3.org/**International/multilingualweb/** >>>>> lt/track/actions/181<http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/181> >>>>> > >>>>> -- Tadej >>>>> >>>>> On 02. 08. 2012 17:22, Tadej Štajner wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Dipl. Inf. Sebastian Hellmann >>>>> Department of Computer Science, University of Leipzig >>>>> Events: >>>>> * http://sabre2012.infai.org/******mlode<http://sabre2012.infai.org/****mlode> >>>>> <http://sabre2012.infai.**org/**mlode<http://sabre2012.infai.org/**mlode> >>>>> >< >>>>> >>>>> http://sabre2012.infai.org/****mlode<http://sabre2012.infai.org/**mlode>< >>>>> http://sabre2012.infai.org/**mlode <http://sabre2012.infai.org/mlode> >>>>> >>(Leipzig, >>>>> Sept. 23-24-25, 2012) >>>>> >>>>> * http://wole2012.eurecom.fr (*Deadline: July 31st 2012*) >>>>> Projects: http://nlp2rdf.org , http://dbpedia.org >>>>> Homepage: http://bis.informatik.uni-****le**ipzig.de/SebastianHellmann >>>>> **<http://leipzig.de/**SebastianHellmann<http://leipzig.de/SebastianHellmann> >>>>> > >>>>> <htt**p://bis.informatik.uni-****leipzig.de/SebastianHellmann<** >>>>> http://bis.informatik.uni-**leipzig.de/SebastianHellmann<http://bis.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/SebastianHellmann> >>>>> > >>>>> Research Group: http://aksw.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>> Dipl. Inf. Sebastian Hellmann >>> Department of Computer Science, University of Leipzig >>> Events: >>> * http://sabre2012.infai.org/****mlode<http://sabre2012.infai.org/**mlode>< >>> http://sabre2012.infai.org/**mlode <http://sabre2012.infai.org/mlode>>(Leipzig, >>> Sept. 23-24-25, 2012) >>> * http://wole2012.eurecom.fr (*Deadline: July 31st 2012*) >>> Projects: http://nlp2rdf.org , http://dbpedia.org >>> Homepage: http://bis.informatik.uni-**le**ipzig.de/SebastianHellmann<http://leipzig.de/SebastianHellmann> >>> <htt**p://bis.informatik.uni-**leipzig.de/SebastianHellmann<http://bis.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/SebastianHellmann> >>> > >>> Research Group: http://aksw.org >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > > -- > Dipl. Inf. Sebastian Hellmann > Department of Computer Science, University of Leipzig > Events: > * http://sabre2012.infai.org/**mlode <http://sabre2012.infai.org/mlode>(Leipzig, Sept. 23-24-25, 2012) > * http://wole2012.eurecom.fr (*Deadline: July 31st 2012*) > Projects: http://nlp2rdf.org , http://dbpedia.org > Homepage: http://bis.informatik.uni-**leipzig.de/SebastianHellmann<http://bis.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/SebastianHellmann> > Research Group: http://aksw.org > > -- Felix Sasaki DFKI / W3C Fellow
Received on Monday, 20 August 2012 09:14:20 UTC