Re: Comments on ITS 2.0 specification WD

Hi Pablo,

please feel free to send your comments via mail. I tried to separate 
Chase and Kevin's comments, so to make tracking easier please add the 
issue number from
https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/open
into the mail. Chase and Kevin are not subscribed the the comments list 
- if you want to discuss with them directly please put them in cc - see 
their mail addresses at
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Jan/0013.html

- Felix

Am 10.01.13 11:34, schrieb Pablo Nieto Caride:
>
> Hi Felix, all,
>
> I went through Chase and Kevin's comments and checked spec, and I 
> think the comments are very interesting and worth discussing. I see 
> you raised some issues, I assume we will discuss them over the next 
> calls, or would you prefer me to send you my comments on email?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Pablo.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> Sending to the public comments list - Chase and Kevin are not 
> subscribed to this, so the comments didn't reach the list. Here they 
> are. Thank you very much for the comments, Chase and Kevin. We will 
> discuss these in the group and come back to you asap.
>
> Best,
>
> Felix
>
> Am 10.01.13 08:39, schrieb Chase Tingley:
>
>     Hi,
>
>     Enclosed are our comments and questions concerning the ITS 2.0
>     working draft dated December 6, 2012
>     (http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20121206/).  Please feel free
>     to contact us for clarifications if anything is unclear.
>
>     *Section 5.4*
>
>     Concerning recursive nesting of external rules, this statement
>     could be clearer:
>
>         The linking mechanism is recursive, the deepest rules being
>         overridden by the top-most rules, if any.
>
>     We assume that this means that if rules file A includes rules file
>     B, A is "top-most" and its rules take precedence.  However, the
>     terms "deepest" and "top-most" seem prone to misinterpretation.
>
>     *Section 5.5*
>
>     The defined order of precedence includes (from highest to lowest
>     priority):
>
>     ·non-inherited local markup
>
>     ·global selections in document via a rules element
>
>     ·data category defaults
>
>     This list seems to be missing inherited local markup.  Thus, the
>     following structure is ambiguous:
>
>       <xml>
>
>         <its:rules>
>
>           <its:translateRule selector="//bar" translate="no" />
>
>         </its:rules>
>
>         <foo its:translate="yes">
>
>           <bar>Is this translatable?</bar>
>
>         </foo>
>
>       </xml>
>
>     The <bar> element inherits a non-local "yes" value for
>     its:translate, but is also subject to a "no" value via the global
>     rule.  Which takes precedence?  As implementors, our instinct  is
>     that the inherited local markup ("yes") has precedence, and the
>     text is translatable.  However, this does not seem clear from the
>     specification.
>
>     *Section 5.8 (annotatorsRef)*
>
>     We have several questions concerning the correct implementation of
>     this attribute.
>
>     i) The list of possible types of tool information to be present
>     includes
>
>           2. information about tools that do 1), but also create ITS
>         annotations
>
>     Since a subsequent note states that case 1) should be handled by
>     the provenance data category, is it correct to assume that in case
>     2), both a provenance record (for text content that was created or
>     modifed) and the annotatorsRef (for ITS annotations that were
>     created or modified) should be used?
>
>     ii) Should annotatorsRef be updated when new provenance records
>     are created?
>
>     iii) Can a single annotatorsRef attribute value contain multiple
>     entries for a single data category?  For example, if multiple
>     automated quality tools (with IRIs "FOO" and "BAR") process a
>     single file, could the annotatorsRef value be encoded like this?
>
>     <doc its:annotatorsRef="lq-issue|FOO lq-issue|BAR">
>
>     *Section 8.12 (Provenance Data Category)*
>
>     We also have several questions concerning the correct use of
>     provenance.
>
>     i) Can an element have both local provenance data (either inline
>     or via local standoff markup) and also reference global provenance
>     data (declared via global standoff markup) using the attribute
>     specified globally via provenanceRecordsRefPointer?  The draft
>     does not specify.
>
>     ii) Similarly, does the ordering of provenance records within a
>     <provenanceRecords> element make a statement about the (temporal)
>     order in which the records were created?  If an ordering is
>     implied, it raises questions about the implied ordering in a
>     document where provenance records are declared both globally and
>     via local markup.
>
>     iii) More generally, we observe that provenance records lack a
>     date/time attribute, which makes their semantics as a form of
>     history somewhat muddy.  In practice, a single tool/agent may edit
>     a single document multiple times in succession over an arbitrary
>     period of time.  Should these multiple "sessions" be represented
>     by a single logical provenance record?  Or is it the intention of
>     the spec that the agent add a provenance record for each of these
>     sessions in which a modification is made to the document?
>
>     iv) We would also note the complexity of implementing this data
>     category correctly.  For example, consider an example based on
>     Example 63.  In this example, an XML document contains two pieces
>     of text, each of which has been affected by a previous tool.  A
>     single provenance record is encoded using global standoff notation:
>
>       
>
>     *<text*  xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
>
>        xmlns:its="http://www.w3.org/2005/11/its"  its:version="2.0"*>*
>
>        *<dc:creator>*John Doe*</dc:creator>*
>
>        *<its:provenanceRecords*  xml:id="pr1"*>*
>
>          *<its:provenanceRecord*
>
>            toolRef="http://www.onlinemtex.com/2012/7/25/wsdl/"
>
>            org="acme-CAT-v2.3"
>
>            revToolRef="http://www.mycat.com/v1..0/download  <http://www.mycat.com/v1.0/download>"
>
>            revOrg="acme-CAT-v2.3"
>
>            provRef="http://www.examplelsp.com/excontent987/production/prov/e6354"*/>*
>
>        *</its:provenanceRecords>*
>
>        *<its:rules*  version="2.0"*>*
>
>          *<its:provRule*  selector="//*[@ref]"  provenanceRecordsRefPointer="@ref"*/>*
>
>        *</its:rules>*
>
>        *<title>*Translation Revision Provenance Agent: Global Test in XML*</title>*
>
>        *<body>*
>
>          *<par*  ref="#pr1"*>*  This paragraph was translated from the machine.*</par>*
>
>          *<legalnotice*  ref="#pr1"*>*This text was also translated from the machine.*</legalnotice>*
>
>        *</body>*
>
>     *</text>*
>
>     Now, a second agent modifies the file, affecting only the
>     <legalnotice> content.  In this case, the shared provenance record
>     must be forked into a duplicate record to which the second agent
>     can be added:
>
>       
>
>     *<text*  xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
>
>        xmlns:its="http://www.w3.org/2005/11/its"  its:version="2.0"*>*
>
>        *<dc:creator>*John Doe*</dc:creator>*
>
>        *<its:provenanceRecords*  xml:id="pr1"*>*
>
>          *<its:provenanceRecord*
>
>            toolRef="http://www.onlinemtex.com/2012/7/25/wsdl/"
>
>            org="acme-CAT-v2.3"
>
>            revToolRef="http://www.mycat.com/v1.0/download"
>
>            revOrg="acme-CAT-v2.3"
>
>            provRef="http://www.examplelsp.com/excontent987/production/prov/e6354"*/>*
>
>        *</its:provenanceRecords>*
>
>        *<its:provenanceRecords*  xml:id="pr2"*>*
>
>       
>
>          *<its:provenanceRecord*
>
>            toolRef="http://www.onlinemtex.com/2012/7/25/wsdl/"
>
>            org="acme-CAT-v2.3"
>
>            revToolRef="http://www.mycat.com/v1..0/download  <http://www.mycat.com/v1.0/download>"
>
>            revOrg="acme-CAT-v2.3"
>
>            provRef="http://www.examplelsp.com/excontent987/production/prov/e6354"*/>*
>
>       
>
>       
>
>       
>
>     *<its:provenanceRecord*
>
>            revPerson="John Smith"
>
>            revOrgRef="http://john-smith.qa.example.com  <http://john-smith.qa.example.com/>"*/>*
>
>       
>
>       
>
>       
>
>     *</its:provenanceRecords>*
>
>        *<its:rules*  version="2.0"*>*
>
>          *<its:provRule*  selector="//*[@ref]"  provenanceRecordsRefPointer="@ref"*/>*
>
>        *</its:rules>*
>
>        *<title>*Translation Revision Provenance Agent: Global Test in XML*</title>*
>
>        *<body>*
>
>          *<par*  ref="#pr1"*>*  This paragraph was translated from the machine.*</par>*
>
>          *<legalnotice*  ref="#pr2"*>*This text was translated by machine and then post-edited..*</legalnotice>*
>
>        *</body>*
>
>     *</text>*
>
>     In this case, the tool would have the option of leaving the shared
>     global record and then using local standoff markup to encode the
>     second record (assuming that this combination of global & local
>     records is permissible -- see bove).  However, there are other
>     cases in which the agent would need to perform complex markup
>     manipulations, such as a scenario in which local inline markup
>     (encoding a single provenance record) must be replaced with local
>     standoff markup that contains multiple records.
>
>     This complexity may present a barrier to consistent
>     implementation.  It may be worth examining whether it's possible
>     for a newly-created provenance record to reference previously
>     existing provenance records (forming a "chain") in order to
>     minimize the amount of markup that would need to be rewritten by
>     compliant implementations.
>
>     Thanks,
>
>     Chase Tingley & Kevin Lew
>
>     Spartan Software
>

Received on Thursday, 10 January 2013 10:42:33 UTC