MATF Minutes May 9, 2022

*MATF Minutes May 9, 2022
*
*Link**:****https://www.w3.org/2022/05/09-matf-minutes.html

Text of minutes:
*


  Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference


    09 May 2022


    Attendees

Present
    Jan Jaap, Jeanne, Kim, Sally
Regrets
    -
Chair
    Kimberly_Patch
Scribe
    Kim_patch


    Contents

 1. introductions <https://www.w3.org/2022/05/09-matf-minutes.html#t01>
 2. survey <https://www.w3.org/2022/05/09-matf-minutes.html#t02>
 3. Tour of the work that Jan Jaap is doing
    <https://www.w3.org/2022/05/09-matf-minutes.html#t03>
 4. JJ survey questions
    <https://www.w3.org/2022/05/09-matf-minutes.html#t04>
 5. topics for further discussion
    <https://www.w3.org/2022/05/09-matf-minutes.html#t05>
 6. discussions for next time – Brainstorm on questions, then categorize
    them into survey, research and ethics
    <https://www.w3.org/2022/05/09-matf-minutes.html#t06>


    Meeting minutes


      introductions

Jeanne: Been at W3C a long time, formally mobile, 3.0 leadership

JJ: accessible apps

<jjdg> +1

<jeanne> Survey <https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/one_or_two_groups/>

<SSally> +


      survey


      Tour of the work that Jan Jaap is doing

Jan: guidelines for accessible apps page

https://appt-nl.translate.goog/kennisbank/richtlijnen?_x_tr_sl=nl&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=nl&_x_tr_pto=wapp 
<https://appt-nl.translate.goog/kennisbank/richtlijnen?_x_tr_sl=nl&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=nl&_x_tr_pto=wapp>

Jan: guidelines in Dutch explain how to interpret WCAG – we have code 
examples of people can copy paste those solutions and fix issues. We 
have done this for all criteria

JJ: examples – some quite long

JJ: that's mostly what I've been working on code examples and linking 
them to WCAG

JJ: development website – this will be English first 
https://appt-dev-o4ale4roda-ez.a.run.app/ 
<https://appt-dev-o4ale4roda-ez.a.run.app/>

JJ: iOS, android and three development frameworks

JJ: code examples and you can switch between programming languages

JJ: also properties it inherits from other objects so you have a 
complete overview for each object what accessibility properties are 
available

JJ: code examples, guidelines, we already have WCAG, also section 508 
and others.

JJ: all the different guidelines linked. Switch Between platforms so iOS 
developer, and then all the code examples for the pages will be in your 
preferred form

JJ: so if you switch you can switch all the code examples in one go.

JJ: English, Dutch, dark mode, everything is open source

JJ: the code examples are also MIT licensed

JJ: Also github repository, Markdown files for each success criteria, 
also full names and you can jump to the markdown file, look at source 
code, contribute. We have 33 stars so some people have founded and are 
using it. We are trying to build open source website, platform, content, 
community.

JJ: That's why I joined the working group so I can see if I can 
contribute some of this – it would be nice if some of this were on the 
W3C website and not just our website. Developers try to Solve issues and 
they go to W3C site and there is very little solutions for iOS or 
android, just web. You know this is Legal requirement in many countries 
now not just web

JJ: will have a better version of the website I just showed. We have two 
developers full-time working on this. In a few weeks launch a better 
version in the next months until October working on content and hope to 
launch around October. Quarter four of this year with a better version.

JJ: I think end of May will have an official link to this content 
website better version

JJ: I'm working on the documentation in the guidelines and then we also 
have partnership with a company and they are writing about accessibility 
features.

JJ: we are doing the technical part in their doing the soft part with 
interviews with users with disabilities assistive technologies other 
tools they are using, videos, writing stories explaining all the 
accessibility features that exist on iOS that exist on android so they 
provide around 100 articles about this. And we provide also a couple 
hundred articles in total about WCAG it's already 70 articles, and 
Section 508 has a lot of articles.

JJ: hope to launch this year that's the goal

Sally: very cool – this is what I was looking for

JJ: looking for feedback and also any content you would like on there

JJ: there will be a form where we will collect feedback from people

JJ: then we have 160 hours of development to fix whatever features 
people request

Jeanne: this is very cool, this is a lot of what we would like to do and 
with tag three. It's our goals but we haven't Gotten to do it yet. I'm 
eager to see what you do with it and certainly I would like to show it 
to a lot more people

Jeanne: and say this is what we should do – we have would have to look 
into how much we can do with it. I'm eager to see what happens with it.

JJ: licensing is just mention where you publish it from and link to the 
original – that's all you need to do to use the code examples. We also 
built an API so also automatically will be able to fetch the code 
examples and content and put it in other ways. So we really encourage 
people to take the content transform and do whatever you want with it. 
Even commercially. As long as you attribute it to us and that's the only 
requirement we have j[CUT]

Jeanne: I'd like to also say in reverse – that as we get more of 3.0 
done we also hope to have an API so you can link. I think this is going 
to be very interesting

JJ: APIs very powerful – you can always make sure you're using updated 
version of the content

JJ: small organization just a couple of people I think we can get a lot 
done in a small amount of time but the next step we are trying to build 
community and it will be slower.

Kim: this is great – you're making accessibility information accessible

JJ: we will hopefully get more feedback once we have the version live at 
the end of the month and will continue to develop – just a lot of content

Sally: I like it because it's simple. I like the ability to switch 
between languages. The amount of time I spend searching for that type of 
information is huge. I haven't used it with a screen reader so I've only 
seen what you put on the screen and it will be good to have another look 
through it. I like the links I like the dark mode

JJ: everything we build it should be accessible so we do a lot of 
testing. It should be accessible with a screen reader. If you save the 
bookmark it will not change

JJ: for content we just have test data but when we go for the better 
version we will have more real articles. We will have sample data which 
is real data. Right now we have random code examples

Sally: I quite like the indexing ability. Search feature?

JJ: yes we hope to add it Later. Smart searching a lot of documentation 
websites use, But we need to have real content before we implement that

JJ: probably September

Sally: Cool, it's making me want to do coding projects

JJ: normally I'm an app developer not a web developer, but because this 
is web development There is so much more available for web

JJ: I normally built for iOS and it's really accessible for native apps, 
but you find a lot of issues or bugs in Safari. We had to rebuild some 
of the – expand collapse didn't work and we had to rebuild

Sally: usually Firefox is the one that works the most with my things – 
Firefox and Chrome. Anything else not good

Sally: telehealth webinar they were very interested in stuff coming out 
– being able to read and audiogram and adjust your ear pods to match it 
things like that.

JJ: company building our website they also built an app Sense math. They 
are using audio for Maps.

<jjdg> SenseMath: https://apps.apple.com/nl/app/sensemath/id1546257766 
<https://apps.apple.com/nl/app/sensemath/id1546257766>

Jeanne: I'm wondering how you are doing plain language and how that 
relates to the translations as well. As I think that's a really 
challenging part – I'm saying the little nitpicky things for which plain 
language and I'm wondering about the sources for it.

Jeanne: Picky things – For example observable rather than perceivable, 
but perceivable includes hearing

Jeanne: the work we are doing for what cake three it's challenging to 
change things the plain language. So I'm wondering how are you doing it 
– what principles are you following – I'd really like to know. This is 
hard to do.

JJ: it was very hard but for app.org we are planning to translate the 
W3C to anything more simpler plan but we do plan to have explanations in 
plain language

JJ: we will take official Dutch translation in trying to simplify it we 
use the tool from a Dutch company they can check to see if it's plain 
language or not and they also give good suggestions and then we took 
some words we checked it with a lot of people having picked the plain 
language alternative, but the same thing that you mentioned we have the 
same issue that sometimes when you translate it or make it more simple 
it loses some of the v[CUT]

JJ: that's why we decided not to translate the titles anymore or the 
description anymore. We will use official titles and official 
descriptions and add a separate explanation field and add a simple plain 
language explanation. At first we were trying to also translate or 
simplify the titles and explanations but I think we decided not to do 
that anymore. First of all it takes a lot of time to get people on board 
behind the plain Version

Jeanne: I agree that it's hard – even with native English language 
trying to choose words that are accessible to the WCAG group. I agree 
with your decision not to change the titles is a good one and I like the 
idea to of Putting the plain language next to it so you're not 
interfering with the Official

JJ: one of the reasons we were trying to simplifies we found that the 
Dutch translation was harder than the English so for some reason the 
Dutch translation used more harder university level words which you 
would never use in a normal day-to-day, but English version is a lot 
easier for me even as a non-native speaker –

JJ: in English it uses audio only. In Dutch it uses a specific word 
that's harder

JJ: I've learned quite a lot from these meetings already – words like 
lived experience I had seen before I was using different words. In Dutch 
we use a lot of different – we have a similar word to lived experience 
but we would call it experience version. That's how we would literally 
translated.

Sally: Moving around How government is doing disability in New Zealand – 
taking out of health

JJ: in Dutch disability less harsh than the word used in English. 
Sometimes you translated to the exact word but still people have 
different feeling about it

Sally: we could talk for hours about the breaking apart of the word 
disability…

JJ: that's why we have a big button beside each article where you can 
express feedback


      JJ survey questions

JJ: I can share the answers

Sally: I think we can get more depth around why

JJ: survey was for companies that develop app to see if they were using 
any code library to see if they were facing issues but when we did 
interviews we found out that companies are not eggy about accessibility 
it also not using any libraries. So we expanded it to would you like to 
have an accessibility statement or level or mark. So we focused more on 
fixing issues and they are not even at finding issues or being aware of 
accessibility so we[CUT]

JJ: steps ahead

Sally: we can find out if people are being taught it. There's some 
literature but it's just Been at conferences is not been published

JJ: started data collection

JJ: I hope in the near future I can share some numbers for android – 
hopefully in a couple of weeks. We do have the data now for a couple 
100,000 users


      topics for further discussion

Sally: figuring out what people are actually using – we are doing it but 
it would be good to come from others as well. So research questions, survey

JJ: also resources That people are actually using. Are there more 
guidelines I don't yet know about, especially foreign languages

JJ: we have some in Dutch that people outside the Netherlands don't know 
about. There's probably a lot of quality content out there we just don't 
read it.

Sally: the other thing I'm interested in is why people are not using 
them – why people choose not to pursue accessibility

JJ: I think one of the most important questions – why people don't make 
apps landscape design. But it would be really interesting to hear from 
people why not

JJ: and maybe the same question from designers – why do Designers make 
responsive web design but not responsive app design

Sally: I don't work in the Computing in the University – I supervise but 
I don't teach – we can tap into the education of students – we can look 
at the radar of what's taught if that makes sense. Because what I gather 
from talking to colleagues is not on the agenda

Sally: that's just at my university could be different around the world

<jjdg> Stove issues -> Don Norman - The design of everyday things

Kim: he also wrote the psychology of everyday things, which is similar


      discussions for next time – Brainstorm on questions, then
      categorize them into survey, research and ethics

Next meeting May 16

**


-- 
______________________________________

Kimberly Patch
(617) 325-3966

patchontech.com
@patchontech
scriven.com/kimpatch
______________________________________