Re: Best place for revised Pointer Target Spacing

Hi Alastair,

Thank you for summarizing the issue and options under consideration. We
should be able to discuss this tomorrow at MATF.

Best,
Sukriti

On Wed, Sep 9, 2020, 1:40 PM Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
>
>
> Sorry, I need to update my filters as these didn’t get to my inbox
> (Detlev’s should have).
>
> Also, adding Sarah to the CC list as she expressed interest.
>
>
>
> Yesterday we discussed [1] the target-pointer-spacing criteria, with
> reference to issues #1312 and #1361, and since then also issue #1384 [2].
>
>
>
> My overview is that dealing with the various issues
> <https://github.com/w3c/wcag/labels/2.5.8%20Pointer%20Target%20Spacing>
> means we need to either:
>
>    - Have a minimum size that is smaller (e.g. 26px) at AA, and forget
>    about the spacing aspect.
>    - Keep the current size/spacing metrics but not allow targets to share
>    spacing (so smaller targets are not incentivised).
>    - Something else.
>    - Drop the SC.
>
>
>
> The core problems (IMHO) were that:
>
>    - With shared spacing, it can incentivise making targets smaller if
>    they are in a row/list. That may not be an issue for hitting them per-se,
>    but would impact people with low vision.
>    - Lots of tool-bars and vertical lists of links would not pass, it
>    seems like something that would be better dealt with by personalisation
>    rather than reducing the information density for everyone. Thus the
>    suggestion that we used a smaller target size to catch the really tiny
>    targets.
>
>
>
> If there isn’t space on the MAFT agenda this week (or next), we could
> setup a specific call?
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> -Alastair
>
>
>
> 1] https://www.w3.org/2020/09/08-ag-minutes.html#item12
>
> 2] https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/1312
>
> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/1361
>
> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/1384
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* jake abma <jake.abma@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* 09 September 2020 17:55
> *To:* Detlev Fischer <detlev.fischer@testkreis.de>
> *Cc:* Mobile Accessibility Task Force <public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org>
> *Subject:* Re: Best place for revised Pointer Target Spacing
>
>
>
>
>
> As I think Kathy has done a lot of work here and has a clear view on this
> let's discuss this and ask her about the history and research.
>
>
>
> Op wo 9 sep. 2020 om 15:22 schreef Detlev Fischer <
> detlev.fischer@testkreis.de>:
>
>
>
> Am 09.09.2020 um 15:04 schrieb jake abma:
>
> Just a small reminder that the intent was not to have another SC text with
> a smaller target size, but to have a least a 8 CSS px distance between
> adjacent targets (morphed into the current text)
>
>
> Hi Jake,
> I thought working with a smaller size was what had emerged as an
> alternative approach favoured by some in the last WG telco - but of course
> am open to other approaches. Setting a lower target size for an AA
> requirement may be easier to understand, and it would avoid the detrimental
> approach of reducing target size in order compress groups pf targets (as
> would probably also happen if we set 8px as minuimum distance).
>
> The other potential negative impact of an 8px distance requirement would
> be the incentive to create targets with gaps rather than including padding
> (of icons or text links)  in the active target area, which at least for
> mouse users would be better than gaps (I guess the tap heuristics make this
> less of a problem under mobile OSs).
>
> Best,
> Detlev
>
>
>
> Cheers!
>
>
>
> Op wo 9 sep. 2020 om 14:53 schreef Detlev Fischer <
> detlev.fischer@testkreis.de>:
>
> Hi ALastair,
>
> I wondered whether it would help to create an issue for the reset of
> Pointer Target Spacing - or what would you suggest is the best approach?
> My personal hunch is that it might be easiest to start from the
> normative text of our AAA SC Target size, just with a smaller target
> value like 26 x 26px. That woud seem most consistent. This could easily
> done - but I guess just doing that as a pull request on the SC text
> would leapfrog the discussion we will likley want to have before that?
> CC'ing Mobile a11y TF...
>
> Best,
> Detlev
>
> --
> Detlev Fischer
> DIAS GmbH
> (Testkreis is now part of DIAS GmbH)
>
> Mobil +49 (0)157 57 57 57 45
>
> http://www.dias.de
> Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites
>
>
>
> --
>
> Detlev Fischer
>
> DIAS GmbH
>
> (Testkreis is now part of DIAS GmbH)
>
>
>
> Mobil +49 (0)157 57 57 57 45
>
>
>
> http://www.dias.de
>
> Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites
>
>