- From: jake abma <jake.abma@gmail.com>
- Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2020 14:11:40 +0100
- To: Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
- Cc: "Mobile a11y tf (public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org)" <public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org>, AGWG Chairs <group-ag-chairs@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CAMpCG4HBjjncg80kv5v6WXe8zi3Sv11Fjkh+CbjO0BSqUOqxLg@mail.gmail.com>
"That's basically setting a minimum of 24px size" No it will not if you have target of 10px, maybe more, next to targets way bigger, like 10 10px10px targets around a 1 70x70px target, the 24px is easily met, BUT hitting the 10x10px targets will be difficult... Op vr 30 okt. 2020 om 01:26 schreef Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com >: > I think (testing my logical brain) that either we allow for spacing and > get results where smaller targets can work, or we don't allow for spacing > as such. The center to edge calculation is also throwing up an oddity. > > To keep it simple and allow for spacing I'd suggest: > For each target, the horizontal and vertical non-overlapping distance > between the center of the target and the @@center of the other targets@@ > is at least 24 CSS pixels, except when... > > That's basically setting a minimum of 24px size, with a metric that that > (I think) is more adaptable to irregular shapes. > > Cheers, > > -Alastair > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick H. Lauke <splintered@gmail.com> > Sent: 29 October 2020 21:58 > To: Mobile a11y tf (public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org) < > public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org> > Cc: Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>; AGWG Chairs < > group-ag-chairs@w3.org> > Subject: Re: FW: Pointer target size > > I commented on the document itself (in answer to the original > "non-overlapping distance", but i think this would also be simpler/more > understandable than this "closest edge / opposite side / nearest target > contortion), but copying it here as well for reference: > > what you're trying to say, but it needs a lot more words (because > "non-overlapping distance" doesn't really seem to make sense) is that for > each target, you're wanting a circle with radius 12px from the center of > the target, and none of the circles for any of the targets are allowed to > overlap. > > also, while this sort of reasoning/basing it on the center of a target > works ok for regular/rectangular shaped targets, it may not be applicable > for irregular-shaped targets (thinking for instance polygons as part of an > SVG, or image map areas, or similar) > > P > > On 29/10/2020 21:35, jake abma wrote: > > Sorry for the multiple mails, but distsnce need to be in there .. > > > > For each edge of a target, the distance to the closest edge of the > > nearest target on the opposite side is at least 24 CSS pixels, except > when: > > > > > > Op do 29 okt. 2020 22:29 schreef jake abma <jake.abma@gmail.com > > <mailto:jake.abma@gmail.com>>: > > > > Here it is: > > > > > > For each edge of a target, the closest edge of the nearest target on > > the opposite side is at least 24 CSS pixels, except when: > > > > > > Op do 29 okt. 2020 22:24 schreef jake abma <jake.abma@gmail.com > > <mailto:jake.abma@gmail.com>>: > > > > If fact, what we're looking for is more like: each outer edge of > > a target is at least 24 px separated from other targets on the > > opposite side > > > > Op do 29 okt. 2020 22:14 schreef jake abma <jake.abma@gmail.com > > <mailto:jake.abma@gmail.com>>: > > > > 18px area I mean... > > > > Op do 29 okt. 2020 22:12 schreef jake abma > > <jake.abma@gmail.com <mailto:jake.abma@gmail.com>>: > > > > Small addition, even with this adjustment you'll en up > > with a 18px target, imagine the right one is 24, the > > left 12 with 6px spacing will pass > > > > Op do 29 okt. 2020 21:37 schreef Sukriti Chadha > > <sukriti1408@gmail.com <mailto:sukriti1408@gmail.com>>: > > > > Hi Alastair, Rachael, Chuck and MATF members, > > > > In today's MATF meeting, we went over the latest > > proposed wording in this document > > < > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_EHFVE-p4jEtKFa2jMEUruSvu6iv-Vt7UxRW9SrHTCQ/edit > >. > > Jake brought up a great point with an example. It > > had two adjacent targets of 12 px width with a 6 px > > spacing that would pass this criteria even though > > each would have only 18 px in total instead of the > > 24 we are aiming for (a drawing is included in the > > doc). It would run into similar problems as the one > > before where smaller target sizes might be > > encouraged due to shared spacing. To avoid that we > > added "non-overlapping" to the distance. > > > > Please let me know if I can help clarify. Thank you > > everyone for your patience with this! > > > > Best, > > Sukriti > > > > PS We also looked into going with a 24X24 version of > > 2.5.5 (the AAA version) but considered elements such > > as side rail links that aren't part of sentences but > > standalone links which would fail the criteria on a > > large number of websites even though those are the > > only targets in a 24X24 area. > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 11:24 AM Alastair Campbell > > <acampbell@nomensa.com > > <mailto:acampbell@nomensa.com>> wrote: > > > > Sorry, I should have CCed the task force as > > well.____ > > > > __ __ > > > > __ __ > > > > *From:*Alastair Campbell > > *Sent:* 22 October 2020 15:53 > > *To:* WCAG list ____ > > > > __ __ > > > > Hi everyone,____ > > > > __ __ > > > > We discussed pointer-target-spacing yesterday, > > and whilst there was a general wish to carry on > > with it, we needed a new version to account for > > some of the comments.____ > > > > __ __ > > > > I’ve gathered a couple of suggestions together > > to form this version:____ > > > > __ __ > > > > For each target, the horizontal and vertical > > distance between the center of the target and > > the closest edge of the nearest target is at > > least 12 CSS pixels except when:____ > > > > * *Inline*: The target is in a sentence or > > block of text;____ > > * *User Agent Control:* The size of the target > > is determined by the user agent and is not > > modified by the author;____ > > * *Essential*: A particular presentation of > > the target is essential to the information > > being conveyed.____ > > > > __ __ > > > > *Note*: The User Agent Control exception would > > not apply as soon as styling properties such as > > font size - and in the case of mobile/tablet > > browsers, viewport meta - has been modified by > > the author____ > > > > __ __ > > > > (Google doc version > > > > <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_EHFVE-p4jEtKFa2jMEUruSvu6iv-Vt7U > > xRW9SrHTCQ/edit?usp=sharing>)____ > > > > __ __ > > > > Don’t panic about the “12px” bit, that is the > > same as 24px wide/tall but if you measure from > > the center then you half it. It was a suggestion > > from Jeff Witt in #1444 > > <https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/1444> that > > should prevent the shared space aspect.____ > > > > __ __ > > > > CCing Wilco to make sure the testing perspective > > is considered for this approach. ____ > > > > __ __ > > > > There are other comments to deal with, but does > > this seem like a good basis to continue?____ > > > > __ __ > > > > Kind regards,____ > > > > __ __ > > > > -Alastair____ > > > > __ __ > > > > -- ____ > > > > __ __ > > > > @alastc / www.nomensa.com > > <http://www.nomensa.com>____ > > > > __ __ > > > > > -- > Patrick H. Lauke > > https://www.splintered.co.uk/ | https://github.com/patrickhlauke > https://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | https://www.deviantart.com/redux > twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke >
Received on Sunday, 1 November 2020 13:12:07 UTC