MATF Minutes February 20, 2020

*MATF Minutes February 20, 2020

Link: **https://www.w3.org/2020/02/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html
*
*Text:*


  Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference


    20 Feb 2020


    Attendees

Present
    Jennifer, JakeAbma, Kim_patch, Detlev
Regrets
    Kathy
Chair
    Kimberly_Patch
Scribe
    Kim_patch


    Contents

  * Topics <https://www.w3.org/2020/02/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#agenda>
     1. Dragging alternatives
        <https://www.w3.org/2020/02/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item01>
  * Summary of Action Items
    <https://www.w3.org/2020/02/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ActionSummary>
  * Summary of Resolutions
    <https://www.w3.org/2020/02/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ResolutionSummary>


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<Detlev> Can't find participants in the Webex meeting...

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LaVX-RTaLQL0tN4G3NhOTlmj16swt0VzC7ssaAjqIwg/edit?usp=sharing

<Detlev_> Sorry I had disconnectd myself...


      Dragging alternatives

Detlev: I need to talk to Mike about whether we want to have separation 
between swipes and nondirectional dragging motions. I think the majority 
wanted to go that way
... I still find it hard to separate the two – when you move elements it 
will not require directionality but when you see on the mobile phone you 
can't straight down and sideways because it triggers scrolling – that's 
an edge case. Not sure whether people would test things in the same way, 
not so clear-cut
... sliders which are implemented with drag-and-drop scripts
... for me it's not entirely clear
... needed note saying this is everything that Pointer gestures isn't – 
nondirectional, not directly causing or executing a function because you 
pick it up and then leave it at some point and only thenat the end of 
the gesture you have some result. All that could be different you could 
think of dragging as would cause things to happen. It's not easy to pin 
down in a clear way.

Jake: it's hard for us as a working group the rest of the world will not 
get their heads around it

Detlev: I think now we have a situation where many people interpret 
pointer gestures in a way which I quite like – slightly beyond what is 
strictly required. For example if there's a menu at the top of the page 
you can move side words with a gesture
... but also drag so would technically fall outside scope – it would 
still be covered if there's nothing that allows you to move it by 
single-point alternative activation
... that's fine, they are slightly stricter and in terms of users it's 
good. So now dragging is closing the gap if you like, so it doesn't 
really matter anymore it's more in issue of where will they place it, 
dragging, pointer gestures or both. But user concerns it's fairly 
straightforward. When you do something with a pointer and move things 
about you have single-point activation alternative

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LaVX-RTaLQL0tN4G3NhOTlmj16swt0VzC7ssaAjqIwg/edit?usp=sharing

Detlev: Find it hard to see the difference between operation and motion 
– all kinds of things could happen, drop targets opening up. I'd be okay 
with changing to operation

Discussing whether we have a glossary entry for swiping

Jake: if we had a definition he might have a point but in this case I 
think you mean a dragging motion
... if you don't mind changing it to operation

Kim: motion is Easier to picture but I'm okay with operation

Detlev: okay with changing. agree that it's clearer, because dragging 
motion doesn't feel like swiping, swiping is a straight and fast motion. 
I think dragging motion Encapsulates pickup – But wouldn't want that to 
hold it up, okay with operation
... you can't see a dragging operation for operation so that becomes 
more difficult to change directly

Jake: so we keep the motion for now

Jennifer: would it be useful to have a definition for dragging motion?

Detlev: trouble is there are various ways of implementing, The 
definition may get so vague
... you want to hit the spot of the element you want to move with dragging

Jennifer: that would be easier to define than swiping

Definition for dragging?

Detlev: may be hard to do. Easier than swiping
... definition is basically the inverse of what we have for pointer 
gestures now – requires an initial gesture to one point than it can be 
free-form. Directionality is what I see as distinctive for pointer 
gestures. The dragging gesture would go the other way. Any action 
engaged in a pointer that does not require direction would be dragging
... the harder thing is to work out whether something is dragging or 
whether something is swiping.

Jake: if it's not clear by itself, we should make a definition just for 
clarity.

Detlev: we have a definition for pointer gestures in the understanding, 
not a formal gesture in the glossary
... I'm not in principle against it if there's a way of putting it down
... more unusual techniques – you can Have an alternative way of 
selecting thing, for example some kind of drop-down list where you can 
select one thing and then have an arrow button which you can click and 
then moves to the next silo, something like that
... or you have a menu – if you have an element, you tap on it, once you 
tap on it it grows arrows to all four sides of, down, left, right. And 
then you can tap on the arrows and it will jump by a certain distance – 
move sideways or up words until it is where you Want it and then you tap 
on it again and it loses its extensions
... survey monkey one technique, finite number of elements and drop down 
list to select position – select position 4 and Moves down or pressed 
Done and it gets reordered

think I looked at that

Detlev: don't press done, then you can get back to it. Selecting the 
numbers in this examples doesn't do anything in my browser. I thought if 
you pick five it should move down to the fifth position

Jake: it doesn't update automatically
... but with a small tweak this could be a proper one

Detlev: this is a survey where you want to order things by preference. 
It's a good example, it's fairly straightforward. That can easily be put 
into a technique

Jake: it would be good to have a reset or update button

<JakeAbma> https://codepen.io/barrytsmith/pen/kfiqj

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H6OBXEJE-5r3_q2OKwDGhGyg5rcfV9kS9-Wthf-3fK8/edit?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/document/d/13QWLthBoEU6xuJQ4UrYOwuvJp0a42Z70JRjAsjtv1m4/edit?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LaVX-RTaLQL0tN4G3NhOTlmj16swt0VzC7ssaAjqIwg/edit?usp=sharing

<scribe> *ACTION:* on Detlev to write up the dragging technique on 
ordering things by preference, code pen example that's similar to survey 
monkey

<trackbot> Error finding 'on'. You can review and register nicknames at 
<https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/track/users>.

<scribe> *ACTION:* Detlev to write up the dragging technique on ordering 
things by preference, code pen example that's similar to survey monkey 
[11:53] * trackbot is creating a new ACTION.

<trackbot> Created ACTION-86 - Write up the dragging technique on 
ordering things by preference, code pen example that's similar to survey 
monkey [11:53] * trackbot is creating a new action. [on Detlev Fischer - 
due 2020-02-27].

Detlev: could also make it keyboard accessible
... where do the techniques go

In the same Google doc: 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LaVX-RTaLQL0tN4G3NhOTlmj16swt0VzC7ssaAjqIwg/edit?usp=sharing


    Summary of Action Items

*[NEW]* *ACTION:* Detlev to write up the dragging technique on ordering 
things by preference, code pen example that's similar to survey monkey 
[11:53] * trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* on Detlev to write up the dragging technique on 
ordering things by preference, code pen example that's similar to survey 
monkey


    Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]
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Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by David Booth's 
scribe.perl 
<http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm> version 
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$Date: 2020/02/20 17:11:34 $


*
*___________________________________________________________

Kimberly Patch
(617) 325-3966
kim@scriven.com <mailto:kim@scriven.com>

www.redstartsystems.com <http://www.redstartsystems.com>
- making speech fly

PatchonTech.com <http://www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch>
@PatchonTech
www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch <http://www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch>
___________________________________________________