MATF Minutes April 16, 2020

*MATF Minutes April 16, 2020

Apologies – I didn't start trackbot before taking minutes for today's 
meeting, but here's a cut-and-paste of the minutes
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[11:01] ==kim_patch [~kim_patch@public.cloak] has joined #mobile-a11y
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[11:02] <JakeAbma> present+ JakeAbma
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[11:06] <Kathy> present+ Kathy
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[11:10] <kim_patch> 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LaVX-RTaLQL0tN4G3NhOTlmj16swt0VzC7ssaAjqIwg/edit#heading=h.mntlv4jvrc29
[11:11] <Jennifer> present+
[11:12] <kim_patch> Kathy: I think the big hole here is coming up with 
examples and looking at that – reviewing the text. I know Detlev was 
doing a lot with this and he's not on this call right now
[11:12] <kim_patch> Kathy: there is a caveat for if dragging is 
essential than this doesn't apply
[11:13] <kim_patch> Kathy: also note – just applying to web content not 
assistive technology
[11:13] <kim_patch> Jonathan: slider – if you click somewhere on the 
slider didn't necessarily move it, but you could. They're looking for us 
to create a working example of something or more like a screenshot of 
images and text describing it
[11:13] <kim_patch> Kathy: if we can come up with a couple of examples – 
techniques and failures that's what were trying to get to right now
[11:13] <kim_patch> Kathy: so it sounds like the slider example would be 
a good one
[11:16] <kim_patch> Here's the folder: 
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Q9md2AvmeTgvsT9GB62BsGvCaalDGtE6
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[11:16] <kim_patch> And here's the implementation example document: 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/13QWLthBoEU6xuJQ4UrYOwuvJp0a42Z70JRjAsjtv1m4/edit#heading=h.69rdheamia4t
[11:18] <kim_patch> Kathy: we should add a sliders example – that's a 
good practical example
[11:19] <kim_patch> Kathy: so all of these, we have examples, we need 
the implementations
[11:19] <kim_patch> Kathy: code pen – we need a sample that works across 
platforms for the technique
[11:20] <kim_patch> Kathy: Jennifer, you had the idea about – what tool
[11:20] <kim_patch> Jennifer: Zen hub – in the document. Accessible example
[11:20] <kim_patch> Jennifer: I have the video gif thing here. You can 
click on move to pipeline and it moves over for you instead of you 
having to drag them
[11:21] <kim_patch> Jennifer: so it does take multiple clicks but it 
doesn't require any sort of dragging motion
[11:21] <kim_patch> Kathy: so if we create two techniques out of this, 
one for the dragging alternative for sliders and then the reordered list 
I think those would be to good ones
[11:21] <kim_patch> Kathy: we could also create failures from those we 
wanted to, but is there any other failure example that we could leverage?
[11:22] <kim_patch> Kathy: we had an example – Brian had the accessible 
drag-and-drop example – is that available and does that work
[11:22] <kim_patch> Jonathan: I can find out
[11:22] <kim_patch> Kathy: that might be a good one to start looking at too
[11:23] <kim_patch> Jonathan: I think Mike our said that we need to have 
an example in the understanding section about why, how you could have 
something that wasn't keyboard accessible and yet be most successful but 
not keyboard accessible – the example using up and down arrows to 
reorder. You can drag-and-drop them but there's no way to reorder with a 
single point activation.
[11:23] <kim_patch> Jonathan: I was wondering if we could add this example
[11:24] <kim_patch> Kathy: we can add to the document
[11:24] <kim_patch> Jonathan: the other thing is people say why isn't 
the keyboard good enough. I think we should add to this document that 
especially on mobile the keyboard interface might be difficult or 
impossibleto bring up or interact with it. I think that's something we 
should address.
[11:24] <kim_patch> Kathy: I think that would be a good additional 
paragraph – do you want to write something
[11:26] <kim_patch> Kathy: putting that in document now. Jonathan: we 
can just work on it and drop in stuff
[11:28] <jon_avila> Is this an example you were looking for? 
http://whatsock.com/tsg/Coding%20Arena/Drag%20and%20Drop/demo.htm
[11:28] <kim_patch> Kathy: Jake or Jennifer, take a look at existing 
technique – is there anything we should add
[11:29] <kim_patch> Jake: Link is example of shopping cart drag-and-drop
[11:29] <kim_patch> Kathy: if I click on the book, it moves it to the cart
[11:30] <kim_patch> Kathy: adding link to document
[11:31] <jon_avila> Another one 
https://whatsock.com/tsg/Coding%20Arena/ARIA%20Listboxes/Sortable/demo.htm
[11:32] <kim_patch> Jonathan: are these examples of working ones – if 
there isn't a single point activation, I can see if we can make some. 
Even a double-click would pass the requirement, although that's not 
necessarily a good solution. Or just a select and then a button
[11:33] <kim_patch> Jonathan: maybe if you click on an object in a 
button could appear overtop of it and that button would be add to cart
[11:33] <kim_patch> Kathy: if you could make an update or one we can put 
in here as far as code because right now we just have what the examples 
are. It would be good to have a true code technique – HTML
[11:33] <kim_patch> Jonathan. I'll ask
[11:34] <kim_patch> Kathy: putting in a new technique
[11:36] <kim_patch> Jennifer: I'm reading the technique – I can't think 
of anything else that we need to add right now, everything seems pretty good
[11:37] <kim_patch> Kathy: so we have two HTML techniques were going to 
add. One is the dragging HTML example technique the other is the slider 
technique. We have those two to do. Jennifer, do you want to read 
through the draft failure as well and see if there's anything more in 
that one – the last item. I fixed the numbering
[11:37] ==jon_avila__ [~jon_avila@public.cloak] has joined #mobile-a11y
[11:37] <jon_avila__> Here is a page with some examples -- not sure if 
they pass or not https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/2920006
[11:37] <kim_patch> Jennifer: should be both keyboard accessible and 
single pointer operable?
[11:38] <kim_patch> Kathy: that's a different success criteria – we need 
to have a paragraph in here explaining why keyboard accessible is not 
enough and single pointer is important. single pointer is the gist of this.
[11:39] <kim_patch> Jennifer: would it make sense to have a failure that 
mentions that something can be done with the keyboard but not the single 
pointer
[11:40] <kim_patch> Kathy: that would be good, can you start that one
[11:40] <kim_patch> Jennifer: is another failure, reiterating the point 
that keyboard accessibility is not enough
[11:40] <kim_patch> Kathy: might want to tie off of the language that 
John put up in the understanding
[11:41] <kim_patch> Jonathan: iOS has keyboard support but I haven't 
checked in the browser – previously in iOS even if you had keyboard 
connected keyboard events wouldn't even go to the webpage, but I haven't 
checked recently to see how much that has changed
[11:41] <kim_patch> Kathy: can you check that out Jennifer?
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[11:43] <kim_patch> Jennifer I don't have a Bluetooth keyboard on me
[11:43] <jon_avila__> 
https://labs.levelaccess.com/index.php/Event_Watcher for testing key events
[11:43] <kim_patch> Kim: I can check with an iPhone and Bluetooth keyboard
[11:44] <kim_patch> Jonathan: if you press the keystroke in the log area 
below it should say keypress – if you don't see that you'll know it 
isn't being sent through
[11:46] <jon_avila__> Another one of Bryan's examples that may be 
keyboard accessible but not single pointer accessible 
https://whatsock.com/ > choose Live Demo link -- it's not a separate url
[11:55] <kim_patch> Bluetooth keyboard connected up to an iPhone – arrow 
keys scroll, tab key tabs around, but even though I'm on a Bluetooth 
keyboard the on-screen keyboard comes up if I tab to something like 
search. when I go on the log area it doesn't sense keyboard clicks
[11:57] <kim_patch> Kathy: pickup on this next time, in the meantime add 
to the document
[11:58] <kim_patch> Jonathan: I was going through examples on a Drupal 
page – I haven't found any that work – some good ideasfrom situations 
that we can draw from to see what works
[11:58] <jon_avila__> https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/2920006
[11:59] <kim_patch> Jonathan: examples under approaches section. I don't 
know if any are correct, checking them
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[12:11] <kim_patch> Present+
[12:11] <kim_patch> zakim, list participants
[12:13] <kim_patch> Present+ John_avila, Jennifer, Jake, Kathy

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*___________________________________________________________

Kimberly Patch
(617) 325-3966
kim@scriven.com <mailto:kim@scriven.com>

www.redstartsystems.com <http://www.redstartsystems.com>
- making speech fly

PatchonTech.com <http://www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch>
@PatchonTech
www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch <http://www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch>
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