- From: Kim Patch <kim@redstartsystems.com>
- Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 12:12:12 -0500
- To: "public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org" <public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org>
- Cc: Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu>
- Message-ID: <2cdd1804-07a0-2cfe-1ed6-59a5a79bdd3a@redstartsystems.com>
*MATF Minutes 10 January 2018 link:
https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html
**
Text of the minutes: *Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
10 Jan 2019
Attendees
Present
Shawn, Present, Kim, AllanJ, JakeAbma, laura, JonA, JohnR, shadi
Regrets
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
jallan
Contents
* Topics <https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#agenda>
1. spacing between touch targets
<https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item01>
2. Portrait - Landscape content
<https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item02>
3. indication of gestures
<https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item03>
4. Focus disappearing under sticky element
<https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item04>
5. focus Management
<https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item05>
6. Custom gestures
<https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item06>
7. Low Vision, proximity of related information
<https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item07>
8. LV - proximity of related information
<https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item08>
9. justification
<https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item09>
10. visual affordancee
<https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item10>
11. page refresh
<https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item11>
* Summary of Action Items
<https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ActionSummary>
* Summary of Resolutions
<https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ResolutionSummary>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
+ Present
<AllanJ> scribe: jallan
<AllanJ> kp: overlaps between LV and mobile, id and note difference so
we make sure everyone is covered.
<AllanJ> mobile spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wRAViPfAJ4Ytqc71tGZp6gU07HNd2QQaNgtJsog-D90/edit#gid=124994642
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wRAViPfAJ4Ytqc71tGZp6gU07HNd2QQaNgtJsog-D90/edit#gid=0
<AllanJ> Low Vision Needs:
http://w3c.github.io/low-vision-a11y-tf/user-needs-coverage.html
<AllanJ> in Mobile reviewing Draft Proposals
spacing between touch targets
JA 2.2 synergy between user groups – low-vision user stories here as well
Jim: especially when you're working on smaller screen – zero into get
your finger in the right place
JA especially if you are holding the device closer your finger gets in
the way more
<AllanJ> jon: it has synergy. if holding device close finger gets in the
way more
<AllanJ> jake: relationship between target size. no SC at AA. Patrick
lauk - target is measured from center. the issues is for small targets
-- they need more space. larger targets it is not so much an issue.
<AllanJ> ... need a target size SC at AA
Portrait - Landscape content
<AllanJ> jon: turn to landscape to make text bigger.
<AllanJ> ... more lines on the page. and buttons (all content) get bigger.
indication of gestures
<AllanJ> jon: swipe from left to open a menu. but no indication. COGA
issue. this is a general accordance issue.
Focus disappearing under sticky element
<AllanJ> jake: focus visible - when focused element should be visible -
not covered by sticky element
<AllanJ> jon: half hidden is difficult. should work at different zoom levels
<AllanJ> jake: easy to create a technique.
Jim: general issues with sticky headers – separate from focus which is
more critical
<AllanJ> jim: low vision has issues sticky elements in general. Focus is
more critical. We have techniques.
<AllanJ> jon: content that is focused should be visible also.
focus Management
<AllanJ> jon: focus management is an issue for lowvision.
<AllanJ> jake: examples... table with 5 columns, zoom in only 3 col
visiable. cell has active element, table changes size and col with ...
<AllanJ> ... have a global convention. should be in an SC
<AllanJ> jon: open discussion on github.
<AllanJ> jon: can an author know when user changes size and breakpoints
to manage the focus.
<AllanJ> jake: knows situations when focus is lost.
<AllanJ> jon: if I have focus, I zoom in to look at something, if I move
focus does the screen follow.
<AllanJ> jake: need some research - when something disappears, the focus
should return to parent element
Custom gestures
<AllanJ> jon: zoom in iOS is 3finger control. yes there potentially is a
problem. setting in iOS - can change gestures.
<AllanJ> jim: who manages the conflict the user or app
Low Vision, proximity of related information
LV - proximity of related information
JA: with mobile if people have to zoom in and a site is not responsive
than any mobile users going to have that
... problem with that is not in the visible viewport
Jake: example page when you calculate your mortgage divided 50-50 left
side fill in what you earn
... when you zoom in if you pan you only see the left side
... miss relationship – if you zoom in you don't have the opportunity to
compare
Jim: use case with mobile
Jake: if it read flows than without the proximity people have a hard
time getting the information clear
justification
Jim: users can change justification but we know that full justification
is bad – author doesn't have control over whether user can change
justification that's a browser issue
JA: Might have to have an exception if example legal needs to be full
justified
... you might have to go all the way to the edge of the screen to read
so this way you don't necessarily have to go all the way to the edge so
it makes more information viewable on the left edge so there's actually
more content viewable on the screen at any time for users in general.
But of course that's assuming that it doesn't reflow. That mitigates
that issue for mobile users
Jim: so there's a mobile use case
visual affordancee
Jim: we had two SC's
... as sites get more minimal trouble knowing where to click
JA: more of an issue for mobile because you can't use a pointing device
you do have to rely more on affordances
... I'll use a stylus to put a border around anything that's actionable
so I can find it – or start tabbing on the screen to find out what is
actionable
Jim: on mobile that's more difficult because you can't use an external
stylesheet on mobile what you touches what it is
... if some particular on-screen keyboard comes up you say I did find it
<AllanJ> kim: this in combination with instructions then user doesn't
know where to start
Kim: third one down in the mobile spreadsheet
page refresh
Jake: when I read this one a couple of days ago – I have been busy with
this one this week the opposite way around. We have a single page app
and when you click on one of the main menu links
<AllanJ> related to mobile focus management.
Jake: we have a menu on the left side – used to be that when you click
on another menu in the main menu the content change but you do not have
a page refresh you do not know that the main content changed
... you would like the page title to be read to you, the focus to be
reset and normally two options reset it to the H1 of the main content or
just put it back to the body element so you start all over again
... so I do understand your point but this one, the way it was written
is exactly what you do want where a single page app you want to simulate
multiple pages. Click the link parts of the page refresh and you want
the focus to be set on the body
JA: depends on the type of user. We struggle with this. One of the
things we've come up with is if the navigation has changed the top
refocused back to the body but if the navigation has been consistent and
you are moving to another page with the same structure keep it – it
matters what has changed
Jake: people expect the same behavior – in our case specifically when
you click on the link you have no idea anything – you just go to another
page
JA: I don't know if that would fall under 4.1.3 – you don't know if the
page has changed
... on the desktop you have a page title you can check that. On mobile
it's not that visually apparent so you really don't know where you are
even if you end up on the body you don't have context of what's changed
on that page
... knowing the each one of the title is important to knowing where you went
Jake: when new information is added to a page – maintain focus at the
current location. That's exactly what caused the problem in our case
... we have two cases. In one case you want to maintain the focus. But
in another case you don't want that
... simulating a page load which tells you you are on a new page
Jim: when new information is added to a page through content update or
injection maintain the focus at the current location – so I'm thinking
of I'm in a table and I click on a button that says sort this column and
instead of staying right there in my table where I've sorted it jumps me
up to the top of the page and I have to go time my
... Find my table again
JA: when some small part of the change has updated and that changes the
point of regard. If you just sort the table and focus goes back to the
top everybody's got to go back to where they were
Jim: we are focused on the small one – is mobile focused on the larger
one for your focused management?
Jake: it's about context or non-context change. I'm talking about the
opposite
... if we can make this one a little bit more smart and clear what we
mean – I agree
<AllanJ> context change (whole page) - non-context change (portion of page)
Jim: we are at the end of the call – I will update both documents
<laura> Yes. Useful. Thanks.
Summary of Action Items
Summary of Resolutions
[End of minutes]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by David Booth's
scribe.perl
<http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm> version
1.154 (CVS log <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/>)
$Date: 2019/01/10 17:04:49 $
--
___________________________________________________
Kimberly Patch
www.redstartsystems.com <http://www.redstartsystems.com>
- making speech fly
PatchonTech.com <http://www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch>
@PatchonTech
www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch <http://www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch>
___________________________________________________
Received on Thursday, 10 January 2019 17:12:39 UTC