MATF Minutes 29 November 2018

*MATF Minutes 29 November 2018 link: 
https://www.w3.org/2018/11/29-mobile-a11y-minutes.html*
*
Text of the minutes: *Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference


    29 Nov 2018


    Attendees

Present
    kim, shadi, Kathy, JakeAbma, MarcJohlic
Regrets

Chair
    Kathleen_Wahlbin
Scribe
    kim


    Contents

  * Topics <https://www.w3.org/2018/11/29-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#agenda>
  * Summary of Action Items
    <https://www.w3.org/2018/11/29-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ActionSummary>
  * Summary of Resolutions
    <https://www.w3.org/2018/11/29-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ResolutionSummary>


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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wRAViPfAJ4Ytqc71tGZp6gU07HNd2QQaNgtJsog-D90/edit#gid=0

TOPIC touch target

Kathy: two things – target size and pixels between targets
... Looking just at the second one, pixels between targets – maybe do 
that first, also helps with design

Kim: clashing user needs – have a lot on the screen versus less 
scrolling versus how it looks

Jake: if there's space in between can break design. Also irritating when 
you move your mouse over a menu when there are gaps between elements it 
will trigger things – it looks like it's blinking instead of just being 
one thing and staying there – it will be a pointer than a hand than a 
pointer. Those were in the past two reasons why I always wanted my menu 
items without any space between them even a pixel
... so just take into account when we try to solve this one it may 
affect design decisions – just from another angle some pushback may happen

Mark: I was thinking we could do spacing of we exempted text. But you 
are right Jake if there are menus there may be issues. Maybe background 
the same color but these are all issues to deal with

Kathy: I don't think clashing requirements is something we can solve in 2.2
... we have to say is there any items for 2.2, is it worth doing in 2.2 
altogether. Then looking at that for whether or not we would put more 
effort into silver at this point rather than trying to do another point 
release. This exercise is to gather insight – is there anything for 2.2.
... this is one of them, spacing that might be in 2.2. Were just 
determining whether it's worth spending more time discussing

TOPIC provide clear indication that elements are actionable

Kathy: this is about making sure that buttons and links look like they 
are actionable – Affordances between different controls – do we need 
and2.2 or silver

TOPIC landscape and locking

Jake: when you're in portrait mode example progress of stocks, in 
landscape it's just a totally different view. It's not like you are 
losing part of the content, it's two completely different views and 
that's not covered by the success criteria. Some options only available 
in landscape, stock example.

Mark: what's the alternative

Kathy: the problem is there's no way in portrait mode to get to that 
functionality. So this success criteria would say it must be possible to 
do the same functions in portrait and landscape
... if you have filters in landscape mode when you get a portrait mode 
may be that collapses just to a button to push to get that information – 
the functionality should be there you just have to get it in a different 
way – you do have to take action to reduce screen size but make sure you 
don't lose functionality

Jake: maybe all functionality will be available in landscape as well as 
portrait, something in that direction

Kathy: is it 2.2 or silver

Jake: 2.2

Mark: 2.2

Kim: 2.2 – use cases mobile and also cognitive

TOPIC gestures

Jake: instructions but not for a form but for gestures

Kathy: the challenge here is I don't know what the success criteria 
would be. It's a good best practice and a good thing to think about I 
just don't know what the success criteria would be

Jake: we can look at labels and instructions
... find something then can't get it back

Kathy: I've made a note to look at labels and instructions for 2.2

TOPIC focus indicator

Jake: go to the top or bottom you don't have a focus indicator anymore – 
we say it must be visible. If it always happens with sticky headers and 
sticky footers they are not allowed anymore

Kathy: ways to track to make sure item becomes focusable or visible – 
technique on existing for 2.2?

TOPIC Instructions for components that are not native

Jake: example multiple bank accounts and you can swipe through them – 
works a bit like a carousel but also doesn't. Not global convention are 
not always clear. It's an area where when people are just inventing new 
stuff but not sticking to ways people normally interact with these types 
of components. Often they end up not really accessible. Also little bit 
of a blurry thing – just look at can we do something there

TOPIC focus management when zooming

Jake: if you focus on a menu item when you zoom in that menu item will 
be hidden hamburger menu – what do you do with focus management when you 
rotate or reflow. For instance landscape three table rows last row 
element that has focus, what happens with the focus when the last row or 
column disappears
... so what happens when element in focus disappears?
... zoom in, element disappears, where is focus

Kathy: we should touch base with low vision task force on this

TOPIC custom gestures and information about them

Jake: if you can only use one finger because you turn on your screen 
reader into fingers don't work anymore. Information communicated – use 
two fingers to scroll up and down when screenreader is taking up others
... also don't talk about click here if you don't use a mouse because 
you can also talk about touch or eye tracking
... but most important one is not to break gestures when you turn on 
your screen reader

Kathy: past discussions?
... I don't know why we took this out, and I don't know why we ended up 
not even looking at it for 2.1 – I put a note to go back to our 
conversations in minutes to see past conversations I

TOPIC carousel

Jake you don't know or hear when you enter that specific widget – for 
example, there is a container, previous/next, headings – when or how do 
you know when you enter the carousel because it's not an official 
element with a role. But we all know what a carousel is and people 
Seeing the screen know to push the buttons

Jake: as we invent more conventions, always be behind but at least we 
can provide a role description

Kathy: I think we should look at what we can do in 2.2 – and further 
discussions on this
... 4.2.1, aria is a technique, but not the only way to accomplish it. 
May be worth looking at if this does or doesn't fit under 4.1.2

TOPIC modal URL

Jake: this makes you lose the context of the page itself
... it's not clear at this moment

<JakeAbma> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/170#issuecomment-437109868 
<https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/170#issuecomment-437109868>

Kathy: I'll put more discussions needed on this one. I think we have 
enough to have good discussions next week on what we've identified for 
2.2. And maybe for the ones that I haven't marked up to look and see 
effectively a technique under an existing criteria

<Kathy> I guess Webex decided we were done!

<JakeAbma> ?me

<Kathy> thank you for all your inpute

<Kathy> we will continue discussions next week

WebEx hung us up automatically

<MarcJohlic> Similar to this issue, I've seen a lot of chatter lately 
around where the focus should land on a modal (close button, title, 
content etc) - so could be a part of that discussion

<shadi> oh darn, that was me leaving!

<MarcJohlic> Oops

<shadi> really sorry about that!

Talk to everyone next week

<shadi> should i re-open the bridge?

No need to do that – we were just ending anyway

<shadi> sorry!


    Summary of Action Items


    Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]
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