MATF Minutes 1 March 2018 from Kim Patch on 2018-03-01 (public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org from March 2018)

From: Kim Patch <kim@redstartsystems.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2018 12:11:34 -0500
To: "public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org" <public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org>
Message-ID: <5A983446.5050808@redstartsystems.com>
*MATF Minutes 1 March, 2018 link: 
https://www.w3.org/2018/03/01-mobile-a11y-minutes.html

*


  Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference


    01 Mar 2018


    Attendees

Present
    JakeAbma, Chriscm, Detlev, marcjohlic, kim
Regrets

Chair
    Kimberly_Patch
Scribe
    kim


    Contents

  * Topics <https://www.w3.org/2018/03/01-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#agenda>
     1. orientation
        <https://www.w3.org/2018/03/01-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item01>
     2. Accessible Name
        <https://www.w3.org/2018/03/01-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item02>
     3. Status Changes
        <https://www.w3.org/2018/03/01-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item03>
     4. Pointer Cancellation
        <https://www.w3.org/2018/03/01-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item04>
  * Summary of Action Items
    <https://www.w3.org/2018/03/01-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ActionSummary>
  * Summary of Resolutions
    <https://www.w3.org/2018/03/01-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ResolutionSummary>


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https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/WCAG_2.1_Understanding_and_Techniques_Development

<chriscm> does anyone have the link?


      orientation

<marcjohlic> 
https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/orientation/understanding/21/orientation.html

https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/telco/

Marc: looking for examples of failures in site – easy to find in web apps.
... one of my colleagues runs Ironman triathlons. A couple months ago he 
ran one and so I pulled the track status during the race website up. 
When you try to look at it in landscape it says it doesn't work in 
landscape you need to view in portrait mode. Not sure why they want to 
force portrait mode. Is that an example of the exception?

Detlev: if nothing is different I don't see why you would be able to 
claim an exception

Marc: they at least pop up a dialogue saying you must be in portrait but 
I can't see why
... will have ready for next time

https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/label-in-name/understanding/21/label-in-name.html

<marcjohlic> "When the Accessible Name is different from the visible 
label, it essentially becomes an unknown hidden command for speech input 
users that can be accidentally activated without the user knowing what 
has happened."


      Accessible Name

<marcjohlic> 
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/WCAG_2.1_Understanding_and_Techniques_Development


      Status Changes

Chris: this is not written in a technology specific way

<Detlev> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/765

Chris: referred to M29, but that doesn't seem relevant to this
... this is more up-to-date, but I come to the same conclusion – 
whatever we were discussing last week was pointer and mobile specific – 
the status changes document is not the one that we were talking about 
nor can I figure out which one. This I don't think is what we were 
talking about
... M 29 is certainly still applicable – it is an important understanding.

Mark: pointer cancellation is what we were talking about last week – 
using the new page to look at pointer cancellation and the understanding 
document


      Pointer Cancellation

Chris: it's pointer cancellation that can be updated with M 29 – all 
that on the up event?
... with this I can move forward with pointer cancellation
... then my question becomes is this to pointer and it needs to be made 
agnostic for mobile? Reference to difference between mousedown and mouse up

Detlev: I've been working on this – mentions mouse and other input 
devices to make it clear it's not just for touch. That's done but it 
needs techniques. I see the reference here to M 29. It's at least 
relevant in terms of subject

Chris: where I came in is do we need a mobile specific one because of 
things like 3D touch, 3D touch inherently involves canceling of pointers

Detlev: we have included long press, or touch and hold. That's not the 
same as Force Touch or 3D touch

Chris: What I'm hearing is we may need different techniques around 
mouse, Touch, 3D touch
... my understanding of pointer cancellation – pointer cancellation was 
essentially making sure that people are not brushing across an event and 
triggering activation just by accidental touch, so trigger on up event, 
certainly drag-and-drop is in there but this is my primary understanding

Detlev: gets tricky when you start talking about drag-and-drop – can you 
drop it outside a drop target, if you force that then you would exclude 
– there may be screens where you can't drop it anywhere. You are right 
the main point is do it on the up Event and for that we need a very 
simple general technique

Chris: I think we should keep the understanding more pointed

<Detlev> 
https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/pointer-cancellation/understanding/21/pointer-cancellation.html

Chris: this looks good to me – this looks solid

Detlev: add simple technique for up event and maybe another for 
drag-and-drop – that may be Sufficient

Chris: additional technique for pointer cancellation – 3D touch firmer 
touch on a mobile device is that confirmation or you can't do that and 
you still need to do that on the release event – either way we should 
address this on mobile

Detlev: Do we want to have a technique that relies on 3D touch – always 
another way to do the same thing

Chris: you could potentially have content that is rendered only on 
mobile devices even within a web sphere

Detlev: Then the whole issue of alternative versions would crop up
... You make sure there are other things – you can confirm by other 
gesturehave many devices not capable of 3D touch – still not widespread. 
Sounds like the technique should be don't rely on 3D touch. Or if you do 
things

Chris: maybe that's the technique – devices still need to adhere to 
what's device agnostic
... maybe then this is actually a note or call out on the primary technique
... The 3D touch concern was brought up on a message board somewhere – I 
like a note – three touch does not satisfy this

Detlev: understanding or technique?

Chris: probably technique – is pretty specific
... I'll work on the generic one for pointer cancellation and will 
include that note, and if that feels more natural in the understanding 
we can move it

Detlev: welcome examples for multipoint gestures, sliders with 
additional buttons to move stepwise – I need a real Implementation and 
haven't found one

Jake: could you send an email with that request?
... I can see what I can do

Note: Chris to also look over Status Changes understanding and send to 
list this week


    Summary of Action Items


    Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]
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$Date: 2018/03/01 17:09:15 $


___________________________________________________

Kimberly Patch
President
Redstart Systems
(617) 325-3966
kim@redstartsystems.com <mailto:kim@redstartsystems.com>

www.redstartsystems.com <http://www.redstartsystems.com>
- making speech fly

www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch <http://www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch>
___________________________________________________
Received on Thursday, 1 March 2018 17:12:02 UTC