MATF Minutes 8 February 2018

*MATF Minutes 8 February, 2018 link:
https://www.w3.org/2018/02/08-mobile-a11y-minutes.html
*


  Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference


    08 Feb 2018


    Attendees

Present
    Kathy, JakeAbma, kim, Detlev, marcjohlic
Regrets

Chair
    Kathleen_Wahlbin
Scribe
    kim


    Contents

  * Topics <https://www.w3.org/2018/02/08-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#agenda>
     1. Logistics
        <https://www.w3.org/2018/02/08-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item01>
     2. Assignments
        <https://www.w3.org/2018/02/08-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item02>
     3. touch target understanding
        <https://www.w3.org/2018/02/08-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item03>
  * Summary of Action Items
    <https://www.w3.org/2018/02/08-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ActionSummary>
  * Summary of Resolutions
    <https://www.w3.org/2018/02/08-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ResolutionSummary>


------------------------------------------------------------------------

<Kathy> 
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/WCAG_2.1_Understanding_and_Techniques_Development


      Logistics

Kathy: tracking document on our wiki page – mirrors the ag working group 
this but shows what we are doing and what's ready to be reviewed
... working on understanding and techniques. We also need to collect 
examples of each of the different success criteria for the overall 
conformance

<Kathy> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG_2.1_Implementations

Kathy: this link is the ag list of implementations
... character key shortcuts is in there – other people have been also 
filling in
... ideally we would have at least one implementation – issue of not 
having complex gestures – want to have sites that actually demonstrate 
the techniques we are proposing. Multipoint gesture that can also be 
done with a single point activation is going to be key

Detlev: the example I have for mobile websites – carousel or you can 
slide in using your finger swiping left or right without any external 
control that might be a failure – those things change pretty quickly. So 
far what I've found were news sites. You can't expect that element to 
stay in place as of reference

Kathy: that also came up – we can have a snapshot of a page in as a 
reference
... the idea is we are collecting to document that they exist

Detlev: rrecommendation for a screen cast to make those videos?

Kathy: screen cast – done through snag it. Free trial

<Kathy> 
https://www.techsmith.com/screen-capture.html?utm_source=product&utm_medium=snagit&utm_campaign=sw0

Kim: combination of video and page source


      Assignments

https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/WCAG_2.1_Understanding_and_Techniques_Development#Techniques

Kathy: I collected all the techniques that we had from previous versions 
– we have to go back and see if they are correct. If you are assigned 
one you might want to go into this wiki page and updated
... the idea is we can keep track of which techniques we are currently 
working on
... I may take this out of the wiki table– it's easier to see as a list 
with headings
... the understanding documents we are hoping to have updated within the 
next two weeks
... the implementations – the list of URLs – there were hoping to get 
those links of examples in by next Tuesday
... timeline for the list of implementations is because the working 
group has to go through and validate them. If we don't have examples 
were going to need to reach out to organizations who may be able to 
implement and look at what is available
... if they don't have sites with implementations the SC will be removed 
– need enough time to either find or build sites

Jake: I already added some sites – I found a bunch more passes and fails 
– will be enough and is this what we want?
... concurrent input mechanisms understanding? There's already an 
understanding document present

Kathy: it should be almost there – review the current SC and make sure 
that the understanding document matches what we currently have listed in 
the understanding. If there are any changes that need further 
clarification then we would go and add that in. There may not be further 
clarifications – if that's the case just pass it back to the working group
... it hasn't been reviewed by the working group at all – it's been 
reviewed by the mobile task force. There were tweaks to the language 
since then. It shouldn't take too long to go through an updated because 
most of the languages already written but there are some areas where we 
have to make modifications

Jake: deadlines – one week and then gone for a week

Kathy: if you can get the understanding document concurrent that would 
be helpful

<Kathy> 
https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/target-size/understanding/21/target-size.html


      touch target understanding

Kathy: I've updated this based on last week's discussion
... I've highlighted the sections that are changed
... also added examples 6-8
... updated titles

<Detlev> "will help them greatly in having positive outcomes on the web 
page" soundas a bit strange - simply "will help them activate the target"?

<Detlev> Maybe mention that often targe size can be increased by making 
the parent element of a target activatble? Which brings up the issue 
whrther the target is what you see, or the area that responds to the action

<JakeAbma> The issue can be further complicated on for responsive 
layouts on small

<JakeAbma> delete first 'on'

<marcjohlic> "Users lack the same level of fine control as on inputs 
such as a mouse or stylus."

<marcjohlic> The "as on" doesn't seem to be correct

Kim: Example 5 missing "t": ORIGINAL … text do no need CORRECTION … text 
do not need

<marcjohlic> "The issue can be further complicated on for responsive 
layouts" - remove "on"

<Detlev> "If the size of the target is not modified by the author 
through CSS or other size properties, then the target does not need meet 
the target size of 44 by 44 CSS pixel" - we should run this past Patrick 
to find a bullet-proof definition of "user agent control"

<marcjohlic> "If there are more than one target on a screen that 
performs" should be "if there IS"

<marcjohlic> and then in that same section: "If there are more than one 
target on a screen that performs the same action then that is that is 
available," i think the whole "then that is" needs to be dropped

<Detlev> Another Benefit: "Users who use a mobile device in environments 
where they are exposed to shaking (such as public transport)" - or similar

ORIGINAL Equivalent targets: If there are more than one CORRECTION If 
there is more than one

Kathy: when you have finished an understanding fill in the last cell of 
the table to indicate that

<marcjohlic> "It is for that reason that targets that contained within 
one or more sentences" add in an ARE "targets that ARE contained"

<Detlev> Echoing Patrix: with "Example 2: Customizable: A mechnanism is 
provided..." we may waht to clarify whether build-it zoom (such as pinch 
zoom in mobile browsers) counts AS A MECHANISM

<Detlev> sorry for shouting, hitting the wrong key...

<Kathy> example 2 should probably be removed all together

<marcjohlic> "particular target size and changing it woudl 
fundamentally" typo in "woudl"

<Detlev> Example 4: Anchor Link: is anchor really defined as same page 
anchor (fragment identifier?) If not, change

<Kathy> Example 3: Same Page Anchor Link The target is an in-page link 
anchor and the target is less than 44px by 44px. Users can scroll the 
screen using browser functions so target size does not need to be met.

<marcjohlic> Also in "Essential" - "change the information and 
functional of the content" - typo - should be "function" or "functionality"

Under Techniques – missing space WCAGWorking Group

<Kathy> The target size is the area that can be touched to activate the 
action. The touchable area can include the whitespace around the target 
and may be larger than the area that gets keyboard focus.

Kathy: Patrick's code pen example – for keyboard focus took away the 
padding and kept it in for touch target size

<Kathy> The target size is the area that can be touched to activate the 
action. The touchable area can include the whitespace around the control 
and can be larger than the area that gets keyboard focus.

Kathy: I wanted to call that out because it doesn't have to be the same

Detlev: brings up the point that you can include small text with large 
target around it

<marcjohlic> "then the target does not need meet the target size" - 
missing a "to" - "need TO meet the target size"

Detlev: could be legal documents with small text – they could do that 
again have a lot of padding around it so the target is large but text so 
small that it can hardly be read – do we need to account for that
... technique for increasing target size – for example increased to 
entire cell in table

<Kathy> The target size is the area that can be touched to activate the 
action. The touchable area can include the whitespace around the control 
and can be larger than the area that gets keyboard focus.

<Detlev> http://www.incobs.de/articles/items/target-size-fate.html

Detlev: post on what happened to target size AA – also Patrick's 
comments at bottom of post

Kathy: maybe I should add some examples of size changes. One thing that 
is very specific and this is the size of the target is not modified by 
the author. You can change the color, style but if you change the size 
you end up getting into a modified version. The font text size for the 
height and width of a control or changes.Should I add that?

<Kathy> User Agent Control: If the size of the target is not modified by 
the author through CSS or other size properties, then the target does 
not need meet the target size of 44 by 44 CSS pixels.

<marcjohlic> Example 4 - "44px by 44px" needs to remove px and add CSS 
for consistency "44 by 44 CSS pixels"

<Kathy> An examples of size changes could include font text size, and 
height or width of a control.

<marcjohlic> Example 5 - "Links within paragraphs of text do no need to 
meet " typo "no" should be "not"

Detlev: can I claim this if I don't use CSS at all, or if I change other 
things but I don't try to affect changes of the size of my native 
controls in my then fine – do I fall under this exception. People may 
wonder if they do or not

<Kathy> Examples of size changes could include font text size 
properties, and height or width of a control.

Detlev: I'd like to see examples – more solid ground to discuss
... shaking train example benefit for everyone

Kathy: removed example 2 – we no longer have customizable

Detlef: I would've thought it was any anchor

Kathy: I think I've addressed everybody's items – I'll finish the text 
edits and republish.

Mark: I thought all the content was good

Detlev: not sure if I can manage all the ones I was on before

Marc: I'd like to finish the orientation and then take one
... I may be able to get someone else for my team to pick one up

Kathy: yes – and if you can change the chart

Detlev: will make a pass tomorrow and remove name from any he doesn't 
have time for

Kathy: keep track in the wiki – before you start working on something 
make sure to check the wiki

https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG21/Understanding/21/label-in-name.html

<Kathy> For user interface components with labels that include text or 
images of text, the name contains the text presented visually.

https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/master/guidelines/index.html#label-in-name


    Summary of Action Items


    Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]
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$Date: 2018/02/08 17:10:55 $

___________________________________________________

Kimberly Patch
President
Redstart Systems
(617) 325-3966
kim@redstartsystems.com <mailto:kim@redstartsystems.com>

www.redstartsystems.com <http://www.redstartsystems.com>
- making speech fly

www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch <http://www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch>
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