MATF Minutes 30 March 2017

*MATF Minutes 30 March 2017 link: 
*https://www.w3.org/2017/03/30-mobile-a11y-minutes.html


  Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference


    30 Mar 2017

See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2017/03/30-mobile-a11y-irc>


    Attendees

Present
    Kathy, chriscm, Kim, Shadi
Regrets
    Detlev, Henny, Jonathan, Jatin
Chair
    Kathleen_Wahlbin
Scribe
    Kim


    Contents

  * Topics <https://www.w3.org/2017/03/30-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#agenda>
     1. touch target size
        <https://www.w3.org/2017/03/30-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item01>
  * Summary of Action Items
    <https://www.w3.org/2017/03/30-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ActionSummary>
  * Summary of Resolutions
    <https://www.w3.org/2017/03/30-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ResolutionSummary>

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<Kathy> 
<https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/60#issuecomment-277159966>https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/60#issuecomment-277159966

<Kathy> The size of the target is at least 44 by 22 CSS pixels for 
pointer inputs except when a link or control has an alternative 
link/control that is at least 44 by 22 CSS pixels, or is part of a block 
of text.


      touch target size

Kathy: it can be either way, 44 x 22 or 22 by 44.
... if you have in-line links on a block of text you can get links 
stacked on top of each other. if 44 x 44 there is overlap or spaced out 
too much
... if 44 in at least one direction okay. If you had one in-line link 
and another in-line link right below 22
... the thought process is generally speaking 44 x 44 but exception for 
in-line links 44 x 22 because that's what we can do realistically

Shadi: for links it's different than buttons. Buttons are the bigger issue

Kathy: the only challenge that I see is discussion about users being 
able to zoom to do it but within blocks of text if you zoom you then 
lose the context and you have the same problem that low-vision users are 
saying with the fact that you have to then scroll horizontally and 
vertically. Maybe that's not such a big issue because if you are 
magnifying the screen you probably want to be...
... clicking on that link so you're going somewhere else anyway

Shadi: if there are many links in that paragraph it's probably a bad 
paragraph – an issue somewhere else. But if it's a list, a table of 
contents or something that's maybe one of the issues that I can imagine
... forms on mobile – keep expanding to hit the button and then making 
it smaller again to get an overview of where you are in the form – 
that's tedious, that's my most frequent. Table of content I can imagine 
that that might be an issue – but if I expand once then click to the 
place I want to go through that's fine. So I'm thinking this is a good 
compromise.
... form – when you have a lot of buttons close to each other could be 
radio buttons and links. Very often sometimes you have the label which 
is linked and then the side of it might be a help page, a link inside 
the label sometimes so if you don't hit the label correctly or if you 
want to hit the link and not the label or the label but not the link it 
causes a bit of a challenge

Kathy: we really shouldn't have things within labels

Shadi: or even close by

Kathy: so in general we think that 44 x 22 is a compromise we can live 
with for in-line text links

Shadi: I'm happy to be used as a use case – want to make sure not to 
generalize, could be other cases

Kathy: probably not many scenarios where we are going to have 
overlapping text, but may have a bigger issue at that point with too 
many links anyway

<chriscm_> Kim: Make sure language does not imply one particular platform.

<https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/WCAG_2.0_understanding_that_needs_language_update>https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/WCAG_2.0_understanding_that_needs_language_update

<https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Subset_of_WCAG_2.0_Techniques_Applicable_to_Mobile_without_Changes_that_need_language_update>https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Subset_of_WCAG_2.0_Techniques_Applicable_to_Mobile_without_Changes_that_need_language_update

<chriscm_> Kim:The second example includes "mouse" which is very desktop 
centric wording.

<chriscm_> Kim: Guideline 1.1 "...link to an audio clip..." in mobile 
all you get is the audio player, so considerations for mobile are different.

<chriscm_> Kim: This serves as a list of items that are directly 
applicable with updated language.

<chriscm_> Kim: Items are marked fixed in the document. You might take 
the suggestion and fix it differently.

<chriscm_> Kim: Can leave notes that "change not going to be made" in 
the document. Might be a better method than pull requests.

<chriscm_> Shadi: Might be best to coordinate with the chairs on 
workflow. Overall makes sense.

<chriscm_> Kim: Workflow within the group, need help reading techniques 
and spotting these.

<chriscm_> Kim: Fine just saying this needs a fix, without a fix suggestion.

<chriscm_> Kathy: We need to coordinate efforts. Will try and help.

<chriscm_> Kathy: There is an August deadline for success criteria to 
make it into 2.1.

Kathy: anything you can do to push the conversation further on these to 
get these to a finalize point is going to be key
... we also have some of these with no manager
... that's why I've been spending a lot of time talking to people – for 
example trying to get touch target size to the point where it can be 
accepted
... August deadline even though it's not going to be out until later. In 
order for the working group to have time for comments they need those 
success criteria to be locked down. That means they have to go and 
satisfy all of the requirements for a success criteria – so it has to be 
testable, implementable across different technologies and there has to 
be technology to support it so it has...
... to be doable by the developers etc.
... so that's where we need to make sure that we are pushing this. Over 
the next weeks I plan to try to get at least one or two of them that we 
are working on and try to see if we've got some things that we can do to 
address people's comments to try to move this to a point where we are 
not taking the success criteria in a place we don't agree with, but we 
are compromising and looking at...
... all the different concerns to see how we can address those
... that's where we are going to spend some time. There's going to be a 
coordination process – I'll have more on that next week. For now just 
know that we really need to be spending some time pushing these getting 
people's feedback trying to get these to the point where were actually 
finalizing them
... I've taken the priority order we did on the call and started working 
on them from there. If you have some extra time and you can start 
driving the conversation in these, putting comments, suggesting if you 
see something or we need to drive the conversation further if you can 
help do that
... we've got a lot of work to do before August


    Summary of Action Items


    Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]
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$Date: 2017/03/30 15:43:16 $




__________________________________________________

Kimberly Patch
President
Redstart Systems
(617) 325-3966
kim@redstartsystems.com <mailto:kim@redstartsystems.com>

www.redstartsystems.com <http://www.redstartsystems.com>
- making speech fly

www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch <http://www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch>
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