MATF Minutes 9 March 2017

*MATF Minutes 9 March 2017 link: *
https://www.w3.org/2017/03/09-mobile-a11y-minutes.html


  Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference


    09 Mar 2017

See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2017/03/09-mobile-a11y-irc>


    Attendees

Present
    marcjohlic, Kathy, Kim, Chris, Jatin, Shadi
Regrets
    Detlev, Jon, Patrick
Chair
    Kathleen_Wahlbin
Scribe
    Kim


    Contents

  * Topics <https://www.w3.org/2017/03/09-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#agenda>
  * Summary of Action Items
    <https://www.w3.org/2017/03/09-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ActionSummary>
  * Summary of Resolutions
    <https://www.w3.org/2017/03/09-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ResolutionSummary>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

<Jatin> Jatin Present+

Jatin: CSun new Android features – verbosity, change name role state
... user issue – managing chat flow

Shadi: this applies more to native apps but to apps in general, testing 
– a lot of traditional web accessibility testing can be done by code 
inspection. Right now all the framework of course – you do need to test 
using ATs and functional testing still applies. But for mobile apps it's 
a whole different game – devices in different versions of devices. 
Testing becomes less source code...
... looking...
... – you need to test the output much more different modes different 
devices. the evaluation site is so much more complex now. Maybe we need 
new approaches on that front as well

Jatin: it's a challenge for native app

Shadi: native apps is pushing the borders a bit but I think that applies 
even to desktop apps – using so many frameworks now

https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/track/

<marcjohlic> www.deque.com/csun17 <http://www.deque.com/csun17>

Kathy: I did three presentations on mobile – one was specific to the new 
success criteria proposed in WCAG 2.1. Kim and shadi and I. Draft went 
out right before – lots of conversation about it. Presentation received 
positively. I didn't hear anything negative about any of the success 
criteria that we proposed. I heard a lot about some of the other ones. 
The big take away from the...
... conversations I

had at CSUN is there may be some scenarios that we didn't think about

Kathy: links together – I think there are other scenarios we may have to 
go back and revisit – just looking at tightening up the different 
success criteria. But overall it was very positive. Mobile was 
definitely something being talked about quite a bit. The BBC did their 
update to their mobile accessibility guidelines which they launched. 
Take a look at them. Big changes or more on...
... interaction not necessarily related to mobile. not just mobile – 
applied everything. Doing a lot with games now – additional things 
around games. For example if there's audio you're not interrupting the 
screen reader.
... things that come into play when you have audio narration – directly 
relate to the types of applications that they are building. I talk to 
people other guidelines – Sweden. Everyone interested in what's 
happening in 2.1.
... all 10 proposed success criteria went into 2.1. All those are going 
into a survey, people are going to comment and we are trying to 
finalize. Comment until March 31. Expecting comment to come back that we 
will have to address. once they are finalized we will start writing 
techniques and understanding language that will go along with them
... so everything is moving forward, there is still a lot of work that 
has to be done. They will try to address success criteria that are ready 
in comments. A lot of ours are ready. We may have additional comments we 
have to do. I highly encourage everyone to monitor the comments that are 
there – if you know an answer or have an opinion please comment – it's 
helpful to have more comment
... if you have an answer answer and join in the conversation

Chris: also those comments get long – if you see some thing that someone 
had a good point on in the past draw their attention to a specific 
thread or comment so they can answer

Kathy: next steps: the working group is going to go through each of the 
success criteria – you are all invited to attend the WCAG working group 
sessions and talk about those. I will alert people to when the SCs will 
be talked about in the group – you'll be able to decide whether you want 
to attend. Right now there is not – I'll let you know when some of those 
will be on the call
... the other initiative is proposed changes to WCAG 2.0. On the last 
meeting we identified a number of areas where we wanted to add things to 
the understanding, examples to the techniques, other modifications. That 
is what we need to work on. They will be regular pull request that we do 
against 2.0 in Github, included in working group. Not clear about if 2.0 
will be updated – might just...
... be in 2.1 but best way to get them in is pull requests on 2.0 repository
... bottom line is CSUN was very successful – good opportunity to talk 
to people about good work task force has done and happy to see that 10 
of the success criteria went into the draft. It doesn't mean that they 
are final but it's a step in the right direction
... questions?
... Kim went back and looked through all of the actions that we had put 
together so if you're wondering what you are assigned in the last few 
meetings you can go into the actions. Were also going to put together a 
table that outlines what things we are changing for which success 
criteria so that we have that also, easier to track. Once we finish, 
review and do a pull request. We will send...
... that out to survey so more people have the option of commenting.
... a few things that we identified in the minutes that we didn't have 
actions for. Touch target size changes went into the draft – we rewrote 
that slightly in the final diversion making an exception if it's not a 
primary action – one doesn't have to have a primary touch target size of 
the other one does. In the case of duplicate links and page layout. 
That's already been changed
... the link in the appendix also went in
... 2.1 draft links out to all success criteria that were proposed – 
it's in the introduction, not appendix
... list that Alistair put together around responsive design – one of 
those was accessible hiding. I think we might want to add a technique 
for it. On mobile there's a problem especially when things are 
positioned offscreen were focus moves off when you can't see it. Several 
things that pose challenges for mobile. These came up at CSun – 
definitely things people have questions on. So I...
... want to propose we write a technique specifically for that. We need 
to figure out where that would go
... so if we have something that's visible but positioned off screen and 
moves focus – that would be one thing. The other is when you go to the 
responsively outset everything that shouldn't be visible is actually hidden
... I haven't gone back to see if that exists so we want to cross 
reference – I have been on my list to do research

<scribe> *ACTION:* Kathy to do research on accessible hiding to 
determine what and where we should at about that [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2017/03/09-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action01 
<http://www.w3.org/2017/03/09-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action01>]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-65 - Do research on accessible hiding to 
determine what and where we should at about that [on Kathleen Wahlbin - 
due 2017-03-16].

Kathy: volunteer for someone to write something on accessible hiding – 
how screen readers work for VoiceOver and android

<scribe> *ACTION:* Chris to write technique on accessible hiding 
[recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2017/03/09-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action02 
<http://www.w3.org/2017/03/09-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action02>]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-66 - Write technique on accessible hiding [on 
Chris McMeeking - due 2017-03-16].

https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Subset_of_WCAG_2.0_Techniques_Applicable_to_Mobile_without_Changes_that_need_language_update

<marcjohlic> Kim: Subtle changes in language to show applicability

<marcjohlic> Kim: Josh went through first bunch and made some changes. 
Would be good to look at samples and see what was fixed. The second and 
fifth have changes.

<marcjohlic> Kathy: We need to go through Techniques - but Understanding 
documents as well

<marcjohlic> Kim: I was going through the whole thing, but didn't get 
very far.

<marcjohlic> Kathy: Maybe we put a list of all. I think we need to go 
through each of the SCs and go and make changes. For example if it says 
"Desktop" we make it non-specific.

<marcjohlic> Kim: I was going through Techniques applicable to Mobile 
w/o changes - but should go through the whole thing. Link above shows an 
example of what was done.

<marcjohlic> Kim: Should go through the whole thing and create a similar 
list in the wiki.

<marcjohlic> Kim: Made it up to G155

<marcjohlic> Kim: I will create a new wiki page - will point to these - 
but we can go through them all looking for this kind of language.

<marcjohlic> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/

<marcjohlic> Kathy: Just look at existing WCAG 2.0 - Maybe look at the 
GitHub repo for the latest

<marcjohlic> WCAG on GitHub: https://github.com/w3c/wcag

<scribe> *ACTION:* Kim to set up wiki page for going through WCAG 2.0 to 
point out subtle language that might imply desktop and suggest changes 
so that it's inclusive to mobile [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2017/03/09-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action03 
<http://www.w3.org/2017/03/09-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action03>]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-67 - Set up wiki page for going through wcag 
2.0 to point out subtle language that might imply desktop and suggest 
changes so that it's inclusive to mobile [on Kimberly Patch - due 
2017-03-16].

Kathy: we do want to just focus on the changes that we have for 2.0. For 
2.1 we will be writing those but not until we get the success criteria 
finalized so were not redoing work. leave action items open for 2.1 we 
will get to them later
... I'll have action items for next week, we'll also talk about Kim's 
setting up going through 2.0 for subtle changes


    Summary of Action Items

*[NEW]* *ACTION:* Chris to write technique on accessible hiding 
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/03/09-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action02]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* Kathy to do research on accessible hiding to determine 
what and where we should at about that [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2017/03/09-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action01]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* Kim to set up wiki page for going through WCAG 2.0 to 
point out subtle language that might imply desktop and suggest changes 
so that it's inclusive to mobile [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2017/03/09-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action03]


    Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]
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$Date: 2017/03/09 17:14:53 $



__________________________________________________

Kimberly Patch
President
Redstart Systems
(617) 325-3966
kim@redstartsystems.com <mailto:kim@redstartsystems.com>

www.redstartsystems.com <http://www.redstartsystems.com>
- making speech fly

www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch <http://www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch>
___________________________________________________