- From: Kim Patch <kim@redstartsystems.com>
- Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 12:13:01 -0500
- To: "public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org" <public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <588A2E1D.2080002@redstartsystems.com>
*MATF Minutes 26 January 2017 link: *
**https://www.w3.org/2017/01/26-mobile-a11y-minutes.html
*
Text of minutes:
*
Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
26 Jan 2017
See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2017/01/26-mobile-a11y-irc>
Attendees
Present
Kathy, shadi, patrick_h_lauke, jon_avila, chriscm, Kim, Henny
Regrets
Chair
Kathy
Scribe
Kim
Contents
* Topics <https://www.w3.org/2017/01/26-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#agenda>
1. current status
<https://www.w3.org/2017/01/26-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item01>
2. Technique development for existing SCs
<https://www.w3.org/2017/01/26-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item02>
3. next steps
<https://www.w3.org/2017/01/26-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item03>
* Summary of Action Items
<https://www.w3.org/2017/01/26-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ActionSummary>
* Summary of Resolutions
<https://www.w3.org/2017/01/26-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ResolutionSummary>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
<Kathy> meeting: Mobile A11Y TF
<Kathy> scribe: Kim
current status
<patrick_h_lauke> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/labels/MATF
Kathy: success criteria are in the process of being reviewed. Within
github there is a comment section. Most of the members of the WCAG
working group have been assigned to be an owner of a particular SC
<patrick_h_lauke> for all MATF related issues
Kathy: SC manager is outside the group that submitted. I wouldn't be a
manager of any Mobile ones. The idea is to have fresh eyes and have
someone else shepherded through the process. That said we can all add
comments.
... if anybody wants to get more involved in the success criteria for
2.1 everybody is welcome to become messy manager of any of the success
criteria. There are some that have been assigned and some that have not.
These are all going to be shepherded through. Each week the WCAG group
reviews some.
... that's where were at within the existing success criteria in what's
happening within the working group. Questions or concerns about that
process?
<patrick_h_lauke> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/59
Patrick: pointer – probably would affect all users to some extent so I
would propose to retire this.
Kathy: I think we need to put it in the silver bucket rather than retire
it. Issue is we can't make changes 2.0. We need to have all this
information when we do silver.
Patrick: makes sense
Kathy: revisiting it in silver doesn't mean it will go in, but the whole
keyboard model, touch, input has to be revisited and structured well.
There's a lot of redundancy right now, but that was because the way we
needed to structure it
Patrick: is there some label that can be added – deferred to silver,
waiting for working group review etc.
... so people don't start reading it and form opinions and see at the
end that we've effectively retired it
Kathy: will get with Andrew about that
<Kathy> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues
<patrick_h_lauke>
https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=label%3AMATF%20is%3Aissue
<Kathy>
https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3AMATF
Kathy: will set aside some time on the calls to make sure comments are
answered and everything is clear
... next step is they will come back to us potentially to write the
techniques
... any other comments on the submitted SC's to the working group
Technique development for existing SCs
<Kathy> http://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-Extension/
Kathy: we'd identified a number of techniques for mobile to put under
existing success criteria – one under WCAG 1.1 5 under 1.3.1 etc.
... one of things we can be working on now is techniques under existing
criteria – we can submit these at any time
... I'd like to look at these today and see if there are any that are
missing, and for each of us to take one or more of these and write the
technique up. Then we'll review these during the calls. So we will not
only get new,, but also techniques for some existing
Patrick: are these set or still some debate about whether we need them
or not
Kathy: that's what we are going to do now – get a final list of what we
think we need to do under WCAG 2.1
... WCAG 1.1.1 technique for providing media metadata – that's the only
technique listed for that guideline. Any comments
Patrick: question – is this a mobile thing or are we taking the
opportunity to provide new techniques which will not be mobile specific
– I can't think of mobile specific for this one
Kathy: that came from the BBC gap analysis – they had it in their mobile
... we should concentrate on mobile. We can list this one, but we don't
need to prioritize it
... does anybody see any other technique that we need to provide
specifically for mobile under text alternative – anything that has to do
with video or audio
... guideline 1.3.1 several techniques. Virtual keyboard can be set to
several types of data entry. It seems like some redundancy here. With
HTML 5 we can write some specifics as far as different types go. Other
comments on that or things that are missing for 1.3.1?
Patrick: not completely convinced they would be necessary under 1.3.1
altogether. possibly 4.1.2
... writing the technique to trigger a particular user agent rather than
specifying what the nature of a particular input is
Kathy: there's a lot of crossover between 4.1.2 and 1.3.1
Patrick: possibly boil down to if you are expecting a particular type of
input set the type and the note saying if you do this on mobile devices
generally this will also have the beneficial effect of virtual keyboard
– I would suggest merging all of those – could fit under 1.3.1 or 4.1.2
or both
Kathy: I agree, and we've got others that fit under two
Patrick: will take this on
<scribe> *ACTION:* Patrick to write one technique that covers items
under 1.3.1 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2017/01/26-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-56 - Write one technique that covers items
under 1.3.1 [on Patrick Lauke - due 2017-02-02].
Kathy: 1.3.2 This technique specifically about changing orientations and
what needs to be done to have the correct reading sequence
... one of the things we had in the mobile note was talking about
orientation and reading order, which I think is specific to mobile
because you don't have landscape and portrait mode necessarily on a
desktop or laptop
Patrick: you do if you change the aspect ratio of the browser window
... it would be triggered exactly the same way on the desktop, unless
you did something very specific where you only checked wider than taller
or vice versa. But that would happen the same way on desktop so I think
it's a universal problem not specifically a mobile one as long as we are
not talking about other aspects such as focus needing to be retained as
you flip the display, but...
... that would be covered under the SC for device orientation
Kathy: what do other people think about this?
... reading sequence between device orientation or aspect ratio for
responsive layout – clarify what is actually acquired for the different
layouts. Is it really mobile specific?
Jon: not really mobile specific. I'm not sure making sure it's
consistent between layouts is important
Kathy: within each layout it needed to have a correct reading sequence.
Not saying the same reading order in different layouts. I see this is
kind of a mobile technique but happy to be overruled
Patrick: note on the existing meaningful sequence SC that also mentions
that users have different viewport ratios and this applies to all.
Doesn't change the meaning of the SC but clarifies. Applies to mobile as
well as desktop.
Kathy: maybe this is not a technique but– an addition to the
understanding document
<scribe> *ACTION:* Kathy to draft addition to understanding document
1.3.2 about meaningful sequence for different viewport [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2017/01/26-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-57 - Draft addition to understanding document
1.3.2 about meaningful sequence for different viewport [on Kathleen
Wahlbin - due 2017-02-02].
Kathy: 1.3.3 sensory characteristics. We'd talked about this in the
context of a touchscreen – so users know where the spots are actually
located
Patrick: you shouldn't rely on particular locations so now if we propose
a technique about that it seems in contrast to the SC backspace unless
it says even though you shouldn't rely on spatial, here's more you can do
Kathy: I agree. What if we added a paragraph to the understanding on
this stating that it would be helpful for users who are using a touch
screen to know the location so have additional information in there that
could be the location but it does not rely just on that
Patrick: you can do this but make sure you don't rely on it – just
additional hint
Kathy: useful for blind users so they know where it is on a page
<scribe> *ACTION:* Kathy to draft understanding addition for 1.3.3
additional hint on location [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2017/01/26-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-58 - Draft understanding addition for 1.3.3
additional hint on location [on Kathleen Wahlbin - due 2017-02-02].
Kathy: 1.4.4 issues
Patrick: pinch zoom either user agents have specific setting or they
just ignore it so I think the issue itself around that technique has
fallen by the wayside. Additionally in HTML specification and CSS
adaptation I submitted notes – we've covered all the bases without
needing an explicit technique
Kathy: how about a technique for iOS on how to support the Apple font
Patrick: that could be valuable
Chris: yes, a lot of people don't know about that
Kathy: blog item I can adapt for technique
Patrick: whoever take this on might be worth checking chrome – question
is sizing, not sure if it also inherits the user-defined size
Jon: I believe it does
Patrick: it's worth adding if it is indeed the case
<scribe> *ACTION:* 1.4.4 larger text size Jon to write technique
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/01/26-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Error finding '1.4.4'. You can review and register nicknames
at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/track/users>.
<scribe> *ACTION:* 1.4.4 larger text size Jon_avila to write technique
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/01/26-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action05]
<scribe> *ACTION:* 1.4.4 Jon_avila to write technique larger text size
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/01/26-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Error finding '1.4.4'. You can review and register nicknames
at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/track/users>.
Kathy: 1.1.4, on page controls
Patrick: technique would be right lots of JavaScript – actual button in
your page
<scribe> *ACTION:* Chris to write new technique, 1.4.4, on page controls
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/01/26-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action07]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-59 - Write new technique, 1.4.4, on page
controls [on Chris McMeeking - due 2017-02-02].
Patrick: dropping M016, M018, M013, MO21
Kathy: 1.4.8 M009 viewport width
Patrick: 1.4.8 does have in its current form – does have to be changed
not only for mobile different levels of zoom levels. Low vision might
later want to look at this of actually changing current 1.4.8 if they
are not already doing that
Kathy: or even just doing this under silver
Patrick: little tidbits written when desktop was only platform and this
made sense but look at knowing that user can have any kind of screen
size – more realistic than just adding a technique
Kathy: will put this under silver
... 2.1.1 keyboard
... two techniques – interface can be used with physical keyboard.
Ensure that navigation can work with different screen sizes. Not sure
that this is specific to mobile or you would do anything different with
mobile
Patrick: for the keyword one I can't off and think of a scenario where
you would satisfy 2.1.1 in its current form and somehow block the use of
a physical keyboard
Chris: there's an issue on android where the keyboard navigation and the
slight gesture navigation – you don't end up using the same focus order
and you could end up with navigation traps that exist in the keyboards
version of sequential navigation versus the gesture-based sequential
navigation. That whether that belongs here or not and not under
sequential navigation itself – but you can...
... end up with things being accessible on one without the other
Kathy: HTML or native
Chris: anything that exists in native can exist in HTML it's just a
matter of how long it takes to catch up
Kathy: so if we had one under no keyboard trap do you want to write that
up Chris
<scribe> *ACTION:* Chris to write up technique under no keyboard trap
2.1.1 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2017/01/26-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action08]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-60 - Write up technique under no keyboard trap
2.1.1 [on Chris McMeeking - due 2017-02-02].
Kathy: could add something under keyboard understanding – when you go
into keyboard X make sure that all controls are keyboard accessible
... 2.1.1 note – calling out for mobile
Patrick: probably even more general – if your interface changes at
different screen or viewport sizes make sure all elements also work with
keyboard at all those sizes – at a very high level. Example small
viewports, hamburger menu make sure that that also can be opened and
closed correctly and navigated correctly with a keyboard
<scribe> *ACTION:* Patrick to write 2.1.1 note [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2017/01/26-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action09]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-61 - Write 2.1.1 note [on Patrick Lauke - due
2017-02-02].
Kathy: moving on to no time – I don't see anything specifically needed
for mobile – anybody else?
... will stop there and pick up on 2.3
next steps
Kathy: continuing to identify, then finalizing and we will submit those
two WCAG 2.0 and those will get incorporated in. Once we submit those
those will just go in to review, and they would then transfer over to 2.1
Patrick: I would argue that the two notes are purely editorial, don't
change the meaning of the SC so fair game to submit
Kathy: a lot of those will go through if they don't affect Sc's
... we will meet next week
Summary of Action Items
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* 1.4.4 Jon_avila to write technique larger text size
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/01/26-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action06]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* 1.4.4 larger text size Jon to write technique
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/01/26-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action04]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* 1.4.4 larger text size Jon_avila to write technique
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/01/26-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action05]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* Chris to write new technique, 1.4.4, on page controls
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/01/26-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action07]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* Chris to write up technique under no keyboard trap
2.1.1 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2017/01/26-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action08]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* Kathy to draft addition to understanding document
1.3.2 about meaningful sequence for different viewport [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2017/01/26-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action02]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* Kathy to draft understanding addition for 1.3.3
additional hint on location [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2017/01/26-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action03]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* Patrick to write 2.1.1 note [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2017/01/26-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action09]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* Patrick to write one technique that covers items under
1.3.1 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2017/01/26-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action01]
Summary of Resolutions
[End of minutes]
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$Date: 2017/01/26 17:09:51 $
__________________________________________________
Kimberly Patch
President
Redstart Systems
(617) 325-3966
kim@redstartsystems.com <mailto:kim@redstartsystems.com>
www.redstartsystems.com <http://www.redstartsystems.com>
- making speech fly
www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch <http://www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch>
___________________________________________________
Received on Thursday, 26 January 2017 17:13:27 UTC