Re: Touch with Assistive Technology

+1 to moving forward with this amendment to the conformance requirements.
I think this will be an easier path to the result we were looking for in
the initial proposal of "Touch with AT".

I think we do need to work on this piece a bit though:

====
"... However, if a user actively chooses a setting on the page that
optimizes or personalizes the state of the page for accessibility reasons,
this new state does not necessarily need to conform, because the conforming
version can be reached by undoing the setting."
===

I see Jonathan's point:  if my zooming in now causes black text to move
over a black background - I believe the author should be responsible for
not letting that happen.

But (going back to some of Tuesday's discussions) If I'm a user that
prefers a dark grey font on a black background (or some other light
sensitive / "night mode" - the author can't be responsible for the page not
meeting contrast requirements.

I do like this amendment approach though.

-Marc


On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 1:33 PM, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>
wrote:

> > I’m concerned about this statement because you could argue that if I
> zoom in (which is required under SC 1.4.4) that other things could break
> such as stuffiest contrast and that would pass because I could zoom out and
> the contrast would then be sufficient.
>
> ​T​
> his was Patricks addition, to address personalization.
> ====
> "... However, if a user actively chooses a setting on the page that
> optimizes or personalizes the state of the page for accessibility reasons,
> this new state does not necessarily need to conform, because the conforming
> version can be reached by undoing the setting."
> ===
>
> He's described it as a "setting on the page" rather than browser zoom
> which would not be a setting on the page. Perhaps "setting on the web page"
> would make it clearer.
>
> You've brought up that 1.4.4 requires that zooming work, so I think its
> covered. Thoughts?
>
>
> Cheers,
> David MacDonald
>
>
>
> *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*
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> On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 12:00 PM, Jonathan Avila <
> jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com> wrote:
>
>> Ø  accessibility reasons, this new state does not necessarily need to
>> conform, because the conforming version can be reached by undoing the
>> setting."
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m concerned about this statement because you could argue that if I zoom
>> in (which is required under SC 1.4.4) that other things could break such as
>> stuffiest contrast and that would pass because I could zoom out and the
>> contrast would then be sufficient.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>>
>>
>> Jonathan Avila
>>
>> Chief Accessibility Officer
>>
>> SSB BART Group
>>
>> jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com
>>
>> 703.637.8957 <(703)%20637-8957> (Office)
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>>
>> *From:* David MacDonald [mailto:david100@sympatico.ca]
>> *Sent:* Friday, April 14, 2017 11:27 AM
>> *To:* public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org
>> *Subject:* Touch with Assistive Technology
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi All
>>
>>
>>
>> Touch with Assistive Technology is one of the SCs I've been a strong
>> proponent of from the beginning and I'm heavily invested in the wording. As
>> the SC manager of it I've been reviewing the comments, and unfortunately, I
>> don't think we can address the comments adequately with word smithing. It's
>> clear there is a real need to ensure functionality works when screen
>> readers on mobile are running. John avila mentioned sliders, combo boxes,
>> and menus and I found infinite scroll pages sometimes cannot be operated
>> with a 3 finger swipe down on VO.
>>
>>
>>
>> My first thought was to make a short list of common functions that should
>> work AT. Detlev is rightly concerned that its arbitrary, can leave
>> important gaps etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> On further consideration, I think the requirement that Mobile AT works
>> with sites targeted to mobile is already covered in WCAG, but not
>> explicitly. I had filed a bug about a year ago after an extensive dialogue
>> with many stakeholders including Patrick and previous chairs of WCAG2 etc.
>> It proposes an editorial amendment to the conformance requirements ensuring
>> that it is understood that conformance requires that author created views
>> targeted at a specific device need to conform on that device.
>> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/197  The editorial fix has good
>> consensus and momentum, and just needs to be acted on.
>>
>>
>>
>> This will ensure that authors understand that Accessibility support
>> applies to all device specific views of a site created by an author. Here's
>> the amendment language for the conformance section:
>>
>>
>>
>> ====
>>
>> "The full page includes each variation of the page that is automatically
>> customized for various devices, browsers, orientation, or screen sizes.
>> Each of these variations (or their respective conforming alternate
>> versions) needs to conform in order for the entire page to conform.
>> However, if a user actively chooses a setting on the page that optimizes or
>> personalizes the state of the page for accessibility reasons, this new
>> state does not necessarily need to conform, because the conforming version
>> can be reached by undoing the setting."
>>
>> ===
>>
>>
>>
>> The win is that WCAG 2 will be clearer, and that the SCs are understood
>> to apply to device specific views that are created by the author.
>>
>>
>>
>> It also address concerns that the current SC requires too many AT
>> combinations. (Android, iOS, Kindle, Windows Narrator etc.).
>>
>>
>>
>> Under WCAG 2, only one stack needs to work for each device specific view
>> created by the author. So only one device needs to be supported. Easier to
>> manage in a dot release.
>>
>>
>>
>> If we are in unity with this direction, we can propose together this
>> amendment, using the group evaluation of this SC as it's platform. Then
>> retire this SC.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> David MacDonald
>>
>>
>>
>> *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*
>>
>> Tel:  613.235.4902 <(613)%20235-4902>
>>
>> LinkedIn
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>
>>
>> twitter.com/davidmacd
>>
>> GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald>
>>
>> www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>> *  Adapting the web to all users*
>>
>> *            Including those with disabilities*
>>
>>
>>
>> If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy
>> <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html>
>>
>
>