Re: Issue of the new Success Criterion 2.5.3 vs. WCAG 3.2.1

"except when timing of activation is essential
<https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#essentialdef> to the activity"
then define essental

On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 8:24 AM, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>
wrote:

> We may be able to leverage current WCAG exception language such as 2.2.1
> bullet 5
>
> "except when the time limit is essential
> <https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#essentialdef> and extending it would
> invalidate the activity"
>
> On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 3:54 PM, Jonathan Avila <
> jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com> wrote:
>
>> In my opinion 2.5.3 is different from 3.2.1.    The intention of 2.5.3 is
>> to assist users that do not have AT active but may touch the wrong element
>> and then slide their finger to the correct element.
>>
>> On iOS Safari I tested and touchstart is fired followed by touchend and
>> then mousemove for controls like buttons and links.
>>
>> Jon
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 9:07 AM, Chris McMeeking <chris.mcmeeking@deque.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Also, an important distinction between 3.2.1 and 2.5.3, is that 3.2.1
>> uses the phrase "onFocus".  This means something very specific in web
>> development, that is not necessarily implied the scenario 2.5.3 is
>> addressing.  The proposed 2.5.3 events are not specifically referring to
>> onFocus events, but rather hover, touch, and other gestures that only
>> really apply to Touch ATs.  So 2.5.3 can be viewed as covering a superset
>> of the failures that 3.2.1 covers.  I would propose that we relate the two,
>> and keep 2.5.3 separate, focusing only on the issues not covered in 3.2.1.
>> Which would be those issues that are either Touch AT specific or that do
>> not refer direction to the onFocus event.
>>
>> Also @Detlev:  In response to your 3-B comment.  The issue is not
>> canceling a double tap.  We are assuming that if a user initiates a double
>> tap, that they wish to activate the control.  Let me outline a prototypical
>> failure:
>>
>> 1. Touch AT is on..
>> 2. User uses a touch gesture to have a control announced.
>> 3. User lifts off this control and the control is activated.
>>
>> The proper user interaction should be:
>>
>> 1. Touch AT is on.
>> 2. User uses a touch gesture to have a control announced.
>> 3. Users lifts off this control. (Nothing)
>> 4. User double taps screen to activate the control.
>>
>> This is what the proposed 2.5.3 is targeted at now.  I believe expanding
>> it to your ideas you commented in your 3-A point are also relevant.  Though
>> I don't believe would be covered by the current verbage.  We'd also want an
>> additional technique and failure focusing on that scenario for
>> clarification.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 1:11 PM, ALAN SMITH <alands289@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> (3)
>>>
>>> C. For iOS, also has the way many blind users use the double tap and
>>> that is to touch and locate with one finger then keeping that finger on the
>>> screen, tap with another finger, pointer finger and thumb for example. You
>>> locate with your pointer finger and tap with your thumb and release to
>>> select. To cancel, you single tap but don’t release your thumb, rather you
>>> slide your thumb up/down or either side ways to cancel this single tap.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> D.. For Android, in similar fashion, locate with one finger then double
>>> tap and release with the other. To cancel you double tap and slide your
>>> finger on the second tap and not release in the same location. It will
>>> start to announce other buttons/items if under that slide to position and
>>> not fire the unwanted double tap.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hope that helps.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>> Windows 10
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From: *Detlev Fischer <detlev.fischer@testkreis.de>
>>> *Sent: *Thursday, February 25, 2016 12:42 PM
>>> *To: *public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org
>>> *Subject: *Issue of the new Success Criterion 2.5.3 vs. WCAG 3.2.1
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Just following the discussion on today's telco about the benefits and
>>> disadvantages of having a new Success Criterion 2.5.3 vs. rolling it into
>>> WCAG 3.2.1, I see some differences which might be sufficient to justify the
>>> sdeparation (but I am not sure ansd just want to discuss this in more
>>> detail):
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> (1) SC 3.2.1 covers operation with or without AT turned on
>>>
>>>     SC 2.5.3 presumably focuses on use with touch AT turned on
>>>
>>>     (a completely different input paradigm compared to touch
>>>
>>>     without AT)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> (2) 3.2.1: When tabbing through content, things violating 3.2.1
>>>
>>>     just happen on focus - there is no option to revoke the action
>>>
>>>     SC 2.5.3 (as I understood it) focuses on enabling users to
>>>
>>>     revoke an action if they discover that they made a mistake
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> (3) So there are two variants in the way 2.5.3 can apply:
>>>
>>>     A..  AT is off. Here it would cover being able to move the
>>>
>>>         finger out of a control to revoke the action.
>>>
>>>         We know from Patrick that this might not work (sticky
>>>
>>>         behaviour), but it _can_ work natively (iOS) and also
>>>
>>>         on web pages (iOS, Safari) - maybe only if you move the
>>>
>>>         finger far enough outside the control.
>>>
>>>     B.  AT is on. Here, the typical moment to revoke might be
>>>
>>>         that you realise in the middle of a double tap that you
>>>
>>>         actually don't want to activate after all, so you don't
>>>
>>>         lift your finger in order to prevent the event from being
>>>
>>>         fired. We would need to validate with AT users whether
>>>
>>>         they actually do that. iOS cancels the double tap when
>>>
>>>         you move your finger sideways (which of course can be
>>>
>>>         anywhere). If you just leave it resting on screen you get
>>>
>>>         a context menu that includes 'Cancel' (but this may be
>>>
>>>         3D touch specific)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Not sure whether this is helpful.
>>>
>>> Detlev
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Detlev Fischer
>>>
>>> testkreis c/o feld.wald.wiese
>>>
>>> Thedestr. 2, 22767 Hamburg
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.testkreis.de
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>