- From: Kim Patch <kim@redstartsystems.com>
- Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2016 12:08:21 -0500
- To: "public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org" <public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <56E1AA05.8020203@redstartsystems.com>
*MATF Minutes 10 March 2016 link: *
https://www.w3.org/2016/03/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html
*Text of minutes:*
Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
10 Mar 2016
See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2016/03/10-mobile-a11y-irc>
Attendees
Present
Alistair, Kathy, alistair, jeanne, henny, chriscm, marcjohlic,
MichaelC, Kim, David
Regrets
Detlev, Alan
Chair
Kathleen_Wahlbin
Scribe
chriscm
Contents
* Topics <https://www.w3.org/2016/03/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#agenda>
1. Brief wiki tour
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Main_Page
<https://www.w3.org/2016/03/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item01>
2. Review assignments
http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Technique_Development_Assignments
<https://www.w3.org/2016/03/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item02>
3. Proposed text for introduction
<https://www.w3.org/2016/03/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item03>
4. Revisions to 2.5.3, M029 -
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Proposed_revision_of_2.5.3
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/M029
<https://www.w3.org/2016/03/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item04>
* Summary of Action Items
<https://www.w3.org/2016/03/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ActionSummary>
* Summary of Resolutions
<https://www.w3.org/2016/03/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ResolutionSummary>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
<Kim> https://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-Extension/#intro
<Kathy> scribe: chriscm
Brief wiki tour
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Main_Page
kim: let's take a look at the wiki, it's been reorganized a bit.
<David> could you drop the link in again
<Kathy> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Main_Page
marc: new organization looks better
Review assignments
http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Technique_Development_Assignments
kim: Any questions about current assignments?
Marc: Has some projects that are winding down, more time to make progress.
Chriscm: Waiting on status of survey for m29
Proposed text for introduction
<Kim> https://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-Extension/#intro
jeanne: Wanted to put some information in the intro for discussion to
clarify. When John Folliot joined, he was confused over our purpose.
KathyW: It hasn't been decided how our work would be integrated with
WCAG and how it will be structured.
... Anything to do with WCAG will likely need to be stripped out, and we
should only deal with mobile.
... People are getting hung up on our numbering system, stemming from
WCAG elements. We may need to propose new success criteria, extensions,
or combinations of those approaches.
... We may actually be starting WCAG 2.1
... Regardless of the approach, the purpose of the document needs to be
more clear.
Jeanne: That's just an editorial issue. Can be tackled at a later date.
... We need to agree on the introduction paragraph.
Kim: I like it, I like that you added mobile applications.
David: if we do roll into 2.1.1 when we come back to working group, it
will be unlikely that we can apply it to web applications.
Jeanne: Let's not make that assumption.
How do I increment the queue?
Marc: With the 508 refresh, having guidelines that apply makes sense.
Alistair: mobile applications is too broad.
<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say need to not constrain creativity,
but also need realistic expectations and not take personally if WCAG WG
defers some aspects
<David> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#webpagedef
Michael: don't constrain creativity. Some aspects may be restrained for
very specific reasons.
<David> https://www.w3.org/TR/wcag2ict/
<jeanne> +1 Michael
<Kim> +1 Michael
<Kim> Chris: this may someday apply to native even if any native
specific things getting pulled out at least we don't have to go back and
rework on those things
<agarrison> +1
Henny: All good points. Hybrid apps should not be forgotten. Tech
agnostic. In regarding to final wording change "can also apply to mobile
applications" to "...may apply..."
... Even if it doesn't strictly apply, native developers come to wcag,
and specifically the mobile extension for guidance.
<Kim> +1 Henny
<David> +1
<Kathy> +1
<marcjohlic> +1
<jeanne> +1
Kim: What do people think about Henny's suggestion to sub in "may apply..."
+1
Jeanne: Don't get to hung up on definition of web from wcag, because it
was written before smartphones and mobile apps existed.
David: We are constrained by definition within the realm of 2.1.
Jeanne: We don't want to constrain our thoughts. We should allow the
working group to make that decison.
Kathy: Don't censor ourselves, let the working group make the call.
<agarrison> may apply to apsects of mobile device interfaces made with
web technologies
Kathy: Hybrid apps add further complications. A webview within an app is
still web content, even though it's not within a browser.
<Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to say \that the definition of WCAG was
written before smartphones and mobile apps existed.
chriscm: Web content hardcoded does not apply to all content rendered by
a browser.
Michael: This is an issue that needs to be addressed going forward, even
if it can't be addressed in WCAG 2.1
<jeanne> This needs to go into the Coordination section
Kim: Do we need to add a proposal as an action.
<jeanne> *ACTION:* jeanne to document discussion on applicability of the
definition of web content to mobile [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2016/03/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-43 - Document discussion on applicability of
the definition of web content to mobile [on Jeanne F Spellman - due
2016-03-17].
David: Henny adding the word "may" to the introduction addresses my
concerns.
... Focus on hybrid and responsive applications before any native specific.
<Kim> Chris: just because it's not a capability now it might be later --
look at with the capabilities of native are and assume they'll
eventually be capabilities of mobile web as well and assume that any
criteria have respect to the capabilities of native even if we don't say
native apps can do this we can say mobile web may be able to do this
because it's a capability the platform
<MichaelC> +1, there are a lot of APIs being developed for Web that
match mobile device features
<jeanne> +1 Chris
<Kim> +1 Chris
Agarrison: It's true that you can do that. Many features are already
available through things like cordova.
<Henny> +1 Alistair - clearly defining what a mobile application is.
Revisions to 2.5.3, M029 -
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Proposed_revision_of_2.5.3
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/M029
<Kim> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/2016-03-07/
<Kathy> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/M029
<Kathy> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/2016-03-07/results
<Kathy> Chris: M029 is applicable to touch when assistive technology is
turned on
<Kim> Chris: either sequential navigation or iinstead of waiting for
sequential navigation, on release
<Kathy> Chris: Actions should not be taken on focus
<Kim> Kathy: any known issues, specifics that we can reference?
<Kim> Kathy: like this user agent does not support blah blah blah
<Kim> Chris: too obvious ones voice over and talk back both support same
navigation mechanisms
<Kim> Chris: trying to ensure that people understand when you're swiping
on the screen nothing should be activated until you do double tap or
confirmation action
<Kim> David: I think of this as a failure technique -- somebody fails
WCAG if they do this. This isn't really native behavior they have to be
creatively stupid to make this happen. By nature they are going to
override. I don't think this should be positive technique I think this
should be a failure technique -- you fail if you do this dumb thing, and
here's an example of how you can do it dumb and...
<Kim> ...need code example. Has anybody run across applications that
actually do this
<Kim> Chris: on android the stop dialer does this
<Kim> David: failure technique and make it really clear that this is not
going to happen if you doing the normal stuff you have to be really
creative to do this
<Kim> Chris: I agree
<Kim> Chris: going to convert to FM, give it the next FM number
<David> FMXX: Failure of Success Creteria xxx as a result of overriding
assistive technology in such as way as to activate a control when the
touch is removed
<David> froma control
<David> thx
Summary of Action Items
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* jeanne to document discussion on applicability of the
definition of web content to mobile [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2016/03/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action01]
Summary of Resolutions
[End of minutes]
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$Date: 2016/03/10 17:04:58 $
___________________________________________________
Kimberly Patch
President
Redstart Systems
(617) 325-3966
kim@redstartsystems.com <mailto:kim@redstartsystems.com>
www.redstartsystems.com <http://www.redstartsystems.com>
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@RedstartSystems
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___________________________________________________
Received on Thursday, 10 March 2016 17:08:39 UTC