Re: Draft minutes for 2 June 2016 teleconference

Late regrets

Thanks for the minutes.

I'm fine with removing Force touch from the definition of device
manipulation... however, I don't think it should be lumped in with touch. I
think we need to require an alternative to Force touch...

All action performed by Force touch can also be performed with touch.

Understanding clarifies that this could be several extra steps using one
dimensional touch etc... but any function that requires the user to have
the ability to push at different pressures should be available by touch.
That is why I originally added force touch into the defn of Device
Manipulation.

How are we thinking of addressing force touch?

Cheers,
David MacDonald



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On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 12:04 PM, Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
wrote:

> https://www.w3.org/2016/06/02-mobile-a11y-minutes.html
>
>
>
> [image: W3C] <http://www.w3.org/>
> - DRAFT - Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 02 Jun 2016
>
> See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2016/06/02-mobile-a11y-irc>
> Attendees
>
> *Present*
>
> *jon_avila, kim, marc, jeanne, alistair*
>
> *Regrets*
>
> *Chair*
>
> *Kathleen_Wahlbin*
>
> *Scribe*
>
> *jon_avila*
> Contents
>
>    - Topics
>    <https://www.w3.org/2016/06/02-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#agenda>
>    - Summary of Action Items
>    <https://www.w3.org/2016/06/02-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ActionSummary>
>    - Summary of Resolutions
>    <https://www.w3.org/2016/06/02-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ResolutionSummary>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> <*Kim*> ...
> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Guideline_2.6:_Make_it_easier_to_use_the_physical_features_of_the_phone.#Proposed_new_Success_Criteria_on_Device_Manipulation
> "
>
> <*Kim*> https://www.w3.org/2016/05/26-mobile-a11y-minutes.html
>
> <*Kim*>
> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2016May/
>
> <*scribe*> scribe:jon_avila
>
> *kim:* at the end of the minutes last time we had some items in IRC
> within the minutes that was not on the phone call
>
> *marc:* are we solving barriers or just added extra work. Thought is was
> a good one - but interested in hearing other side.
> ... we haven't talked through yet as David put this together
>
> *alistair:* had question about language related to manipulation related
> to drawing
>
> *jeanne:* exception may not be applicable
>
> *marc:* exception seems to include drawing
>
> *jeanne:* applicable to keyboard but not for device manipulation
>
> *kim:* swipe isn't a particular path
>
> *alistair:* we are aiming to better define this but gone to far
>
> *jeanne:* copied straight from keyboard exception
>
> *alistair:* talk about touch in one part and then device manipulation in
> another -- perhaps say non-touch
>
> *kim:* device manipulation definition was changed as well by David
>
> *alistair:* what you are describing across the screen with pressure seems
> like touch not related to device manipulation
> ... 2.6 would be around non-screen elements of device so each have their
> right space
>
> *Kim:* let's look at device manipulation defintion, what do folks think
> about that?
>
> <*jeanne*> When device manipulation gestures are provided, a mechanism is
> available to operate these functions via touch, except where the underlying
> function requires input that cannot be provided through the touch interface.
>
> *alistair:* would take out force touch
>
> <*jeanne*> version of defintiion from document: Moving or controlling the
> device with hands, body or machine. Device manipulation includes other
> methods of controling input to the mobile device outside of using the touch
> screen. This includes: pressing a physical button on the device, shaking,
> holding, proximity, touch, walking, angle of holding, input via the
> accelerometer etc. Gestures to the camera
>
> <*jeanne*> and voice input to the microphone are addressed separately.
>
> <*jeanne*> Moving or controlling the device with hands, body or machine.
> Device manipulation includes other methods of controling input to the
> mobile device outside of using the touch screen. This includes: pressing a
> physical button on the device, shaking, holding, proximity, walking, angle
> of holding, input via the accelerometer etc. Gestures to the camera and
> voice input to the microphone are
>
> <*jeanne*> addressed separately.
>
> *alistair:* touch operable control options are available
>
> *jeanne:* what about a step counter -- you can't get it into phone. GPS
> or angle from accelerometer
>
> *alistair:* if you can manipulate it with a hand then it must support
> touch. Step counter is a good example.
>
> *jeanne:* one we must have is things like a shake to undue.
>
> *kim:* control and data
>
> <*jeanne*> control vs. input. Input can have an exception, for physical
> features of the phone.
>
> *alistair:* can we say when feasible?
>
> *Jon:* don't think we can use language like that
>
> *jeanne:* except where the underlying function has input that cannot be
> provided through the touch interface.
>
> *alistair:* that is getting there
>
> *jeanne:* what about in air gestures
>
> *jon:* do we need an exception for assistive technology
>
> *kim:* try to think of example where air gestures could not be done with
> control
>
> *jeanne:* looking for a control that may not work without touch
>
> *alistair:* +1 to it -- could send out to list
>
> *kim:* let's update the wiki
>
> *alistair:* we aren't really talking about the physical features of a
> phone - not talking about a loop - perhaps change to something like
> physically interact
>
> jeanne; I like it -- can you type it in
>
> <*Alistair*> Alistair: Guideline 2.6: Make it easier to physically
> interact with the device
>
> *jon:* suggest not focus on interacting with device with interacting with
> the content without relying physical features of device
>
> *alistair:* should take a look at the guidelines as a whole
>
> *kim:* added in Jeanne clause in wiki
>
> *alistair:* add underlying function requires input that cannot be
> provided by the touch interface
> ... what do you mean by drawing -- drawing on the touch interface?
> ... unless you are drawing in the air then it is provided by the touch
> interface
>
> *kim:* thinking about pressure data provided by device
>
> *alistair:* could be confusion
> ... other things could be barometric pressure, etc. anything that you
> can't emulate in touch
> ... should move force touch over to touch side
>
> *kim:* would that be in another SC?
> ... should it be through failures here?
>
> *alistair:* my view into -- we find new concepts and then try to find
> places to put them into and then we flesh those out and then find out they
> are prickly and then damage the area we put them into.
> ... let's talk about force touch in isolation
>
> *kim:* what do you people think about ti? I like it. What are other
> areas, e.g. speech
>
> *jeanne:* agree that we should focus on the criteria of the success
> criteria
>
> *kim:* do we agree to take force touch and touch out
>
> *jon:* agree to remove
>
> <*jeanne*> +1 for removing touch and force touch from the definition of
> device manipulation.
>
> *RESOLUTION: remove force touch and touch from definition of device
> manipulation*
>
> *kim:* david is not here -- send 2.6.1 to the list
>
> <*jeanne*> *ACTION:* jeanne to send revision of 2.6.1 to list. [recorded
> inhttp://www.w3.org/2016/06/02-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action01]
>
> <*trackbot*> Created ACTION-52 - Send revision of 2.6.1 to list. [on
> Jeanne F Spellman - due 2016-06-09].
>
> <*jeanne*> +1 for alastairs critique of the wording for 2.6 guideline
>
> *alistair:* should update guideline name --
>
> *kim:* keep in mind title of page is old version -- so put proposal in
> wiki
> Summary of Action Items
>
> *[NEW]* *ACTION:* jeanne to send revision of 2.6.1 to list. [recorded in
> http://www.w3.org/2016/06/02-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action01]
>
>
> Summary of Resolutions
>
> 1.   remove force touch and touch from definition of device manipulation
> <https://www.w3.org/2016/06/02-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#resolution01>
>
> [End of minutes]
> ------------------------------
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> $Date: 2016/06/02 16:01:39 $
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> Found Date: 02 Jun 2016
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>
> Jonathan Avila
>
> Chief Accessibility Officer
> SSB BART Group
> jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com
>
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