Draft minutes from 21 Apr 2016 Teleconforence

FYI - please find the draft minutes below.

http://www.w3.org/2016/04/21-mobile-a11y-minutes.html


[W3C]<http://www.w3.org/>

- DRAFT -
Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
21 Apr 2016

See also: IRC log<http://www.w3.org/2016/04/21-mobile-a11y-irc>

Attendees
Present
Kathy, jeanne, Henny, JonAvila, MarcJ, Detlev, DavidMcD, Chris
Regrets
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
jeanne, jon_avila
Contents

  *   Topics<http://www.w3.org/2016/04/21-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#agenda>
     *   review changes to Touch and Pointer<http://www.w3.org/2016/04/21-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item01>
     *   Finalizing Mobile Touch & Pointer guideline and success criteria<http://www.w3.org/2016/04/21-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item02>
     *   Understanding of 2.5<http://www.w3.org/2016/04/21-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item03>
     *   2.5.1<http://www.w3.org/2016/04/21-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item04>
     *   2.5.2<http://www.w3.org/2016/04/21-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item05>
  *   Summary of Action Items<http://www.w3.org/2016/04/21-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ActionSummary>
  *   Summary of Resolutions<http://www.w3.org/2016/04/21-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ResolutionSummary>

________________________________

<marcjohlic> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Proposed_revision_of_2.5.3
review changes to Touch and Pointer

<jeanne> KW: We added a 5th exception

<jeanne> scribe: jeanne

UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: activation is on the up event -- we were getting into too many scenarios. There are still issues on what we are calling an upevent. David is not here to discuss that in more detail.

-1 for the acronym, but +1 for the rest.

JS: minor editorial suggestions

HS: Add an (e.g. screenreader) to the Note of 2.5.3

DM: Take out the word "Exception" and put the rest of the text back into the list. Split the sentence into two sentences.

<Kathy> https://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-Extension/#touch-and-pointer

DM: Remove the "Avoid" from the handle of Avoid Accidental Activation

Detlev There is a sentence in Intent. THe term Up-event occurs when an action is triggered. Down events can also trigger actions. I think that needs re-wording.

<jon_avila> I agree with Detlev

JA: There is a difference between up event and up event activation. There can be an up event without activation.

DM: I can add activation to the Intent.

MJ: Is there a reason that up-event is there.

JA: Do we also need touchstart and touchend for other platforms.

DM: I will add that.

RESOLUTION: Accept the proposal as amended above (in wiki) for submission to WCAG WG.

<Kathy> https://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-Extension/#touch-and-pointer
Finalizing Mobile Touch & Pointer guideline and success criteria

KW: Now that we have all the SC and Understanding written, we want to finalize this with any changes we may need.
Understanding of 2.5

KW: We are very Touch oriented, not Pointer. We don't have a lot of pointer information.

<jon_avila> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Events/touchend

<Kathy> https://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-Extension/#touch-and-pointer

MJ: Do we need to say touch gestures.

KW: We need to say touch and pointer.

<jon_avila> scribe: jon_avila

<David> This section also refers to pointer events on non-mobile platforms.

kathy: agree that we need a paragraph in there about point events

<David> This section also refers to pointer events such as mouse actions, on non-mobile platforms.

kathy: trying to move away from just mobile as other things have touch screens

<Detlev> "...a single tap on the touch screen will activate the element that currently has focus." should be "..a single swipe on the touch screen will activate the element that currently has focus."

kathy: not really address all of the things in the section to include pointer specific information

marc: could we have two separate sections -- one for touch and one for pointer

<jeanne> +1 for overall re-write - I think there is too much wordsmithing to be efficient on one call.

<Detlev> or "..a swiping or a single touch"

kathy: Thing we could have it in one section -- just missing a few sentences

david: Add a sentence about mouse and pointer

jeanne: will take action item to update for pointer

<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to rewrite the Intent to include pointer. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/04/21-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-47 - Rewrite the intent to include pointer. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2016-04-28].

kathy: any other thoughts on what to include on guideline 2.5
2.5.1

kathy: Move on to 2.5.1 -- let's read that and see if there is anything to add or remove
... some success criteria are just touch and some are touch and pointer. We would keep first three just on touch and others that will deal with both

david: may want to change handle (short name of SC).
... Touch works with AT

jeanne: what about touch is accessible?

Jon: Too broad to just say accessible

david: no more than 10 syllable

detlev: Need some wordsmithing -- when a screen reader is on, a swipe or touch exploration...

david: good to put in now before it gets sent over to the WG

detlev: "turn on" should be "turned on"
2.5.2

david: super long for a SC
... can we make it shorter?

kathy: can we move that paragraph to the understanding
... can we borrow language from the keybiard trap SC of WCAG?

david: actually about same length as keyboard trap -- it is understandable and we have a precedence for the lenth

kathy: we do have a nice handle for it
... Chris, did you have something to add for 2.5.5?

chris: will look at that specific action item and track that down

marc: in 2.5.2 -- then focus can be moved away from component -- add in the word "the" -- we should add that in

detlev: do we have independent activation?

kathy: yes, next one is 2.5.4 - touch target size

david: next week we are sending touch and point 2.5

kathy: Update xx to 44 pixels

chris: looked up action to defend addition of touch trap requirement to show that it does not conflict with SC 2.1

detlev: is 2.5.4 just for touch? Patrick brought up question about mouse user. Could be smaller than touch.

kathy: Should we separate criteria for pointer target size

david: will get push back on target size for mouse.
... users can magnify

detlev: as long as we define some sometime -- only site after x have to follow this.

David: conversation around timeframe things such as before or after this date. Likely that is up to the jurisdictions to make that date -- but don't think we will get much success on setting dates
... we could require it under WCAG 2.1

jeanne: have heard since 2008 that it is an issue for people with fine motor skills

kathy: we should get feedback from working group to make sure we can get it passed through

david: so much better when you have something to float by them rather than having concrete proposal

jeanne: are we asking for authors to finger out what the user might be using?

chris: Moblie and desktop designer are different and we shouldn't force people into one

detlev: Some sites are used on both

michaelC: consensus isn't there -- wait before sending to WCAG WG

david: do see consensus but disagree on size

michaelC: don't think it's ready to go the group

<jeanne> +1 to work it out before sending to WCAG>

kathy: we can continue the conversation next week
... To Jeanne Failure 004 should be removed

<David> 2.5.4 [Proposed New MOBILE Success Criteria] Target Size: A touch target is at least 44px x 44px and the pointer/mouse is at least <xpx> by <xPX> of the visible display at the default viewport size. (Level AA)

kathy: will pick up pointer discussion next week. If you have other changes let me know. Jeanne will put in understanding text.

david: will drop in some language you can put up on the wiki

Kathy: Let's start a wiki page on 2.5.4 like we did with 2.5.3

<marcjohlic> Some IAAP discussions on Minimum Target size the past couple of days: http://connections.accessibilityassociation.org/communities/community-home/viewthread?MID=1409&GroupId=145&tab=digestviewer&UserKey=97893b70-057d-467e-9fd6-49e558e3ea2e&sKey=97ebd69b1d72496b994b

kathy: told Andrew we'd have this to the WCAG WG by the 26th of April

Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to rewrite the Intent to include pointer. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/04/21-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action01]

Summary of Resolutions

  1.  Accept the proposal as amended above (in wiki) for submission to WCAG WG.<http://www.w3.org/2016/04/21-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#resolution01>
[End of minutes]
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Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl<http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm> version 1.144 (CVS log<http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/>)
$Date: 2016/04/21 16:05:46 $
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This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144  of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)



Found Scribe: jeanne

Inferring ScribeNick: jeanne

Found Scribe: jon_avila

Inferring ScribeNick: jon_avila

Scribes: jeanne, jon_avila

ScribeNicks: jeanne, jon_avila

Default Present: Kathy, jeanne, Henny, JonAvila, MarcJ, Detlev, DavidMcD, Chris

Present: Kathy jeanne Henny JonAvila MarcJ Detlev DavidMcD Chris



WARNING: No meeting chair found!

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<dbooth> Chair: dbooth



Found Date: 21 Apr 2016

Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/04/21-mobile-a11y-minutes.html

People with action items: jeanne


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Jonathan Avila
Chief Accessibility Officer
SSB BART Group
jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com<mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
703.637.8957 (Office)
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Received on Monday, 25 April 2016 14:44:56 UTC