- From: Detlev Fischer <detlev.fischer@testkreis.de>
- Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 18:10:49 +0200 (CEST)
- To: public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org
Hi MATF members, Here's is the link to today's minutes: http://www.w3.org/2015/10/01-mobile-a11y-minutes.html And here is the text: ----------------- [17:05] <Kathy> trackbot, start meeting [17:05] * trackbot is preparing a teleconference. [17:05] == RRSAgent [rrsagent@public.cloak] has joined #mobile-a11y [17:05] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/10/01-mobile-a11y-irc [17:05] <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public [17:05] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, trackbot [17:05] == Zakim [zakim@public.cloak] has joined #mobile-a11y [17:05] <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_MATF [17:05] <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot [17:05] <trackbot> Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference [17:05] <trackbot> Date: 01 October 2015 [17:05] <Kathy> chair: Kathy Wahlbin [17:06] <Kathy> agenda? [17:06] * Zakim sees nothing on the agenda [17:06] <Kathy> agenda+ Mobile Techniques [17:06] * Zakim notes agendum 1 added [17:07] <Kathy> agenda+ Discussion of Touch Proposal [17:07] * Zakim notes agendum 2 added [17:07] <Kathy> agenda+ Wirting Assignments [17:07] * Zakim notes agendum 3 added [17:07] <Kathy> agenda+ Next Steps [17:07] * Zakim notes agendum 4 added [17:07] <Kathy> agenda? [17:08] * Zakim sees 4 items remaining on the agenda: [17:08] * Zakim 1. Mobile Techniques [from Kathy] [17:08] * Zakim 2. Discussion of Touch Proposal [from Kathy] [17:08] * Zakim 3. Wirting Assignments [from Kathy] [17:08] * Zakim 4. Next Steps [from Kathy] [16:55] == jeanne [jeanne@public.cloak] has joined #mobile-a11y [17:00] == David [~chatzilla@public.cloak] has joined #mobile-a11y [17:01] == agarrison [~agarrison@public.cloak] has joined #mobile-a11y [17:02] <Kathy> present+ Kathy [17:03] <agarrison> +agarrison [17:03] <jeanne> +jeanne [17:03] <David> +David_MacDonald [17:03] <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes [17:03] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/01-mobile-a11y-minutes.html jeanne [17:03] <Kathy> zakim, list attendees [17:03] <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Kathy, agarrison, jeanne, David_MacDonald [17:04] <jeanne> rrsagent, make logs public [17:04] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, jeanne [17:04] <jeanne> zakim, pick a victim [17:04] <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose David_MacDonald [17:05] == marcjohlic [~chatzilla@public.cloak] has joined #mobile-a11y [17:05] <jeanne> present+ jeanne, agarrison, David_MacDonald, Detlev [17:06] <Detlev> scribe:Detlev [17:06] <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes [17:06] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/01-mobile-a11y-minutes.html jeanne [17:06] <Detlev> Zakim, take up first item [17:06] <Zakim> I don't understand 'take up first item', Detlev [17:06] <Detlev> Zakim, take up next [17:06] <Zakim> agendum 1. "Mobile Techniques" taken up [from Kathy] [17:06] * jeanne notes that the +[name] didn't work. Stick with present+ [name] [17:06] <Kathy> https://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-Extension/ [17:06] <marcjohlic> present+ marcjohlic [17:07] <Detlev> Kathy: Mobile-A11y-Extension is a sketch how the extension framework is going to play out [17:08] <Detlev> Kathy: SOme new mobile techniques, others go under existing techniques [17:08] <Detlev> Kathy: ..organised by guidelines. What's your thoughts? [17:09] == jon_avila [~jon_avila@public.cloak] has joined #mobile-a11y [17:09] <jon_avila> present+jon_avila [17:09] <David> q+ [17:09] == Henny [~Henny@public.cloak] has joined #mobile-a11y [17:09] * Zakim sees David on the speaker queue [17:09] <Detlev> Jeanne: Doc is in Respect to support automated publishing [17:10] <agarrison> So, is it like http://www.w3.org/TR/mobile-accessibility-mapping/ - just cut up into techniques? [17:10] <Kathy> q? [17:10] * Zakim sees David on the speaker queue [17:10] <Detlev> Jeanne: Changes only made via github pull requests - don't add anything to it directly, especially no J, may cause issues [17:11] <agarrison> q [17:11] <agarrison> q+ [17:11] * Zakim sees David, agarrison on the speaker queue [17:12] <Detlev> David: 2.5.1 structure issue - CSS is not correct yet [17:12] <Detlev> David: 2.5.1 should not remain in here [17:12] <Detlev> Kathy: This is agreed stuff but not yet public [17:13] <Detlev> David: Should WCAG be in here and the new stuff added? [17:13] <Detlev> Kathy: Should help place new mobile techniques under the relevant success criteria - but it's open to discussion [17:14] <Detlev> David: Not clear what the proposal is - copying all of WCAG in here? [17:15] <Detlev> David: People shouldn't perceive this as the updated full WCAG [17:15] <Detlev> Kathy: How shall we otherwise present techniques [17:15] <Detlev> David: Maybe it is enough to reference the WCAG guideline /SC numbers to make the difference obvious [17:16] <jeanne> +1 to short handles of WCAG and adding it to the Status [17:16] <Detlev> Kathy: Status of the doc should clarify the difference to exisitng WCAG - that it is to be considered in addition to WCAG [17:16] <Kathy> q? [17:16] * Zakim sees David, agarrison on the speaker queue [17:17] <Detlev> Alistair: mobile accessibility mapping is structured in a similar way (see URL above) [17:18] <Detlev> Kathy: this wasn't structured as extension - some are best practices - we started with touch accessibility and added necessary things [17:18] <Detlev> Kathy: Not xyet decided what will happen with the note - the extension is where things will go [17:18] <David> http://davidmacd.com/blog/WCAG-extension-proposed-integration-into-WCAG.html [17:19] <Detlev> Kathy: WCAG WG is currently working out how the extension should work [17:20] <Detlev> Kathy: THis is an overview t facilitate a suggestion how the different reqs will fit into the extension (LV, cognitive, mobile) [17:20] <Detlev> Kathy: Intended as outline of normative extension [17:21] <Detlev> Kathy: Extension is supposed to just add to, not subtract from WCAG 2.0 [17:22] <Detlev> Alistair: Maybe the text from WCAG should be brought over so people can see what gets extended where [17:22] <Detlev> AListair: Will provide more context - may be changed later [17:23] <Detlev> David: This has no educational purpose ATM - no changes to normative WCAG 2.0 expected , no crossing out [17:24] <Detlev> Jeanne: Stil early days in figuing out what the extension will mean - all thoughts are OK now, Mobile a11y TF is spearheading the process, so it is valuable to identify issues (like having to make changes to normative WCAG 2.0) [17:26] <Detlev> Kathy: End user aspect, like people creating responsive sites - would it make sense to have new mobile SC with different twechniques - the actual end user will know what is required for accessible development [17:26] <Detlev> Kathy: For them it will be easier to have all relevant info in one place rather than resort to different places [17:27] <David> q+ [17:27] * Zakim sees David, agarrison on the speaker queue [17:27] <Detlev> Kathy: We have to consider end user view and usability of this documentation [17:27] <Kathy> q? [17:27] * Zakim sees David, agarrison on the speaker queue [17:27] <agarrison> q- [17:27] * Zakim sees David on the speaker queue [17:28] <Detlev> David: We need a view (quickref) to synthesize stuff, incl. mobile [17:28] * jeanne has already asked for mobile view of the Quickref. [17:28] <agarrison> q+ [17:28] * Zakim sees David, agarrison on the speaker queue [17:28] * jeanne also proposes color changes for existing WCAG and our new text. [17:28] <Detlev> David: Still early days - it may be more difficult to manage to include all, it's a working doc for us [17:29] <Detlev> David: Should be easy to aggregate for developers later [17:29] <Detlev> Kathy: Withing the Quickref there canbe new guidelines and SC [17:30] <Detlev> Kathy: UAAG and WCAG chairs need input on how we can bring together the different user needs and requirements [17:31] <Detlev> Alistair: Reading in different documents looks like a problem - easier to have one synthesized doc [17:31] <Detlev> Alistair: Looks different on a mobile browser [17:32] * jeanne is SO glad Alistair has returned! [17:32] <Detlev> Kathy: Not sure how to bring in hybrid apps using web views [17:32] <Detlev> Kathy: muich of it is platform specific (iOS / ANdroid etc) [17:32] * jeanne hopes that Alistair will start writing Techniques for hybrid [17:33] <jeanne> q+ [17:33] * Zakim sees David, agarrison, jeanne on the speaker queue [17:33] <Detlev> Kathy: Current focus is straight web sites [17:33] <jeanne> ack Dav [17:33] * Zakim sees agarrison, jeanne on the speaker queue [17:33] <jeanne> ack ag [17:33] * Zakim sees jeanne on the speaker queue [17:33] <Detlev> Alistair: THe extensio bnmodel may also apply to techniques [17:34] == Alan_smith [~Alan_smith@public.cloak] has joined #mobile-a11y [17:34] <Alan_smith> + Alan [17:34] <Detlev> Jeanne: Whne req for updated Quickref were developed the need for a filter for 'mobile' was included [17:35] <Detlev> Jeann: we can be specific to the area the techniques apply to [17:35] <Detlev> David: We need mor techniques - including for hybrid [17:36] <Detlev> Jeanne: One topic is text-resizing which could be modified for different mobile paltforms [17:37] <Detlev> Kathy: will send out info on that [17:37] <agarrison> q- [17:37] * Zakim sees jeanne on the speaker queue [17:37] <jeanne> ack jea [17:37] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue [17:38] <jeanne> s/Jeanne: One topic is/Kathy: One topic is [17:38] <Detlev> Kathy: We should go back to see what is mobile specific, like 1.3.3 Sensory characteristics - but telling people where somethign is on the screen coan be really helpful, such things should be taken into account [17:38] <Detlev> Kathy: A technique just being one way to meet the criteria [17:39] <Detlev> Kathy: Lets put techniques out to get feedback on what will prove helpful for the new tocuh interaction paradigm [17:39] <David> q+ [17:39] * Zakim sees David on the speaker queue [17:41] <Detlev> Alistair: 3D touch brings in new aspects, also time touch on Android [17:41] <Detlev> Alan: Things like duration can be very helpful for some users [17:43] <Detlev> David: We need to take into account the WCAG philosophy - there is a tension between actual use cases and the standard. There are sometimes new tech solutions which beg the question what should be required [17:43] <Kathy> q? [17:43] * Zakim sees David on the speaker queue [17:43] <David> q- [17:43] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue [17:43] <Kathy> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Touch_Accessibility_%28Guideline_2.5%29 [17:43] <Detlev> Kathy: This doc is a snapshot of current agreements - we can countinue using Wiki [17:44] <Detlev> Zakim, take up next [17:44] <Zakim> agendum 2. "Discussion of Touch Proposal" taken up [from Kathy] [17:44] <Kathy> http://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-TF-Note/TouchProposal_Discussion.html [17:44] <Detlev> Kathy: Davids wording solution - from equiring touch access to requiring that all touch access also works with AT turned on [17:45] <Detlev> David: Charter tells us we are authorized to develop extensions [17:45] <Detlev> David: There may be overlap between requirements, say of cognitive and moble, so we may wend up with just one extension [17:46] <Detlev> This would address concern about complexity of having several extensions [17:47] <Detlev> Input from different TFs could feed into one extension - the process should encourage discussion to combine SC whereever possible [17:47] <Detlev> The Quickref will then bring that together for the outside user [17:47] <Detlev> David: Diagram has gained traction lots of +1 [17:48] <Detlev> Alistair: Do Working groups work to common time scales? [17:48] <Detlev> David: No real coordination so far [17:49] <Detlev> Kathy: A challenge is the coordination between what the different task forces are doing [17:50] <Detlev> The WG needs to look at that and define how the results are going to be combined - it's currently being worked out within WG [17:50] <Detlev> Kathy: This should not become a bottleneck but is a serious concern [17:51] <Detlev> Kathy: What are the basicv rules for extensions? It's likely that there will be several extensions, not one [17:51] <Detlev> David: should be one extension at the ens of the day [17:52] <Kathy> q? [17:52] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue [17:52] <Detlev> David: the idea is to speed up the overall process - extensions will be easier [17:53] <Detlev> Kathy: The way the focus on the working group topic and interaction with others work is still not finalised [17:53] <David> All functions available by touch (or button presses) are still available by touch (or button presses) after system assistive technology is turned on. [17:53] <Detlev> Kathy: Point about 2.5.4 Proposal [17:54] <Detlev> Kathy: The general gist was that everything that is offered for touch should also work with AT turned on - has anyone worked on the SC text? [17:54] <Kathy> 2.5.4 Modified Touch (5th draft): All functions available by touch (or button presses) are still available by touch (or button presses) after system assistive technology is turned on. [17:55] <agarrison> q+ [17:55] * Zakim sees agarrison on the speaker queue [17:55] <Kathy> Suggested Modification: 2.5.4 Modified Touch (5th draft): All functions available by touch (or button presses) are available by touch (or button presses) with system assistive technology. [17:56] <Detlev> David: pointing to the latest draft of 2.5.4 - focus ios that everything has to work for people using AT - there is no pass-through gesture on Android - most is already available after pass-throuigh gesture. Not so on Android [17:56] <jon_avila> In my experience on iOS the pass through gesture doesn't allow you to lift your first -- I wonder if that could an issue. [17:56] <Detlev> David: Good wording for SC [17:57] <Detlev> Alistair: Impact on AT, example on date picker. AT can have big impact on a11y [17:58] <jon_avila> What assistive technology? If it works with Assistive Touch but not with VO -- it's available with AT but not with all. [17:58] <Detlev> Alistair: There may be unwanted interactions between different gestures for touch [17:59] <agarrison> q- [17:59] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue [17:59] <Detlev> David: In theory the pass-through gesture (on iOS) should enable other gestures [17:59] <Detlev> Jon: Pass through gesture may not work in some cases [18:00] <Detlev> Jon: Some gestures may work with some AT (assistive touch) but not with VoiceOver [18:00] <Detlev> Jon: The wording is a challenge, may not be specific enough yet [18:00] <Detlev> David: We cannot enumerate all potential AT [18:01] <Detlev> Jon: We don't have a standard interface to work with like on the desktop. lots of inconsistency [18:02] <Detlev> David: The intention was that with any AT needed touch would work - focusing on the system level [18:02] <Detlev> Kathy: Please think about wording, make suggestions for changes [18:03] <jon_avila> My technique m23 is in draft form and ready for a review. It is on github. [18:03] <Detlev> Kathy: Lets pick up discussion next week [18:03] <Alan_smith> M007 was updated from my github version [18:03] <Detlev> Kathy: Kim and Jeanne won't be around for next few meetings [18:04] <Detlev> Zakim. list attendees [18:04] == Alan_smith [~Alan_smith@public.cloak] has quit ["Page closed"] [18:04] <Detlev> Zakim, list attendees [18:04] <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Kathy, agarrison, jeanne, David_MacDonald, Detlev, marcjohlic, jon_avila, Alan [18:04] <Detlev> rssagent, make minutes [18:05] <Kathy> rrsagent, make logs public [18:05] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, Kathy [18:05] <Kathy> rrsagent, make minutes [18:05] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/01-mobile-a11y-minutes.html Kathy [18:05] == marcjohlic [~chatzilla@public.cloak] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 40.0.3/20150826023504]"] -- Detlev Fischer testkreis c/o feld.wald.wiese Thedestr. 2, 22767 Hamburg Mobil +49 (0)1577 170 73 84 Tel +49 (0)40 439 10 68-3 Fax +49 (0)40 439 10 68-5 http://www.testkreis.de Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites
Received on Thursday, 1 October 2015 16:11:19 UTC