MATF Minutes 14 May, 2015 from Kim Patch on 2015-05-14 (public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org from May 2015)

From: Kim Patch <kim@redstartsystems.com>
Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 12:14:20 -0400
To: "public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org" <public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org>
Message-ID: <5554C9DC.3040605@redstartsystems.com>
MATF Minutes 14 May, 2015 link: 
http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-mobile-a11y-minutes.html

Text of minutes:


  Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference


    14 May 2015

Agenda 
<https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2015May/0007.html>

See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-mobile-a11y-irc>


    Attendees

Present
    Alan, Kathy, Kim, jeanne, jon_avila, marcjohlic, shebanek, Kenny
Regrets
    Alan_Smith, Detlev_Fischer
Chair
    Kathleen_Wahlbin
Scribe
    Kim


    Contents

  * Topics <http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#agenda>
     1. Perceivable Best Practices - nonlinear and screen layout
        <http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item01>
  * Summary of Action Items
    <http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ActionSummary>

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<trackbot> Date: 14 May 2015

WebEx link: 
https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m523c9f623a4979f4952a9bb93531b909

<Alan_Smith> I am only in on irc, password for webex did not work and I 
cannot call from Italy

<Kathy> it needs to be all lower case

<Alan_Smith> Kim's email had password as

<Alan_Smith> ok, I'll try. Thanks

<Alan_Smith> Working on ipad mini and windows 8 tablet from italy

<jon_avila> I wish there was a way to stop Cisco from flashing

<Kathy> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Perceivable_Techniques


      Perceivable Best Practices - nonlinear and screen layout

Kathy: best practices, advisory or sufficient -- what issue should we 
have listed pertaining to nonlinear screen layout
... is there anything more we need or is this more of a best practice

Marc: would focus order or meaningful sequence come into play

Kathy: this is where you have a whole page coming in from the side -- it 
could have a focus order

Marc: if you swipe from the side and it covers only a quarter of the 
screen like a menu wouldn't change focus

Jeanne: along the lines of ignoring the Dom we should have an extensive 
conversation about this everywhere in the accessibility field.
... ignore Dom and use accessibility APIs instead but accessibility APIs 
don't always provide all information.
... if browsers ignore Dom there are huge implications
... ignoring the Dom can increase speed of browser
... there's a proposal to PF called WAPA that talks about this. Not 
going to download ARIA information unless they get the query from an API 
I don't know how much aria is used outside assistive technology, but if 
it does... I don't know how much this will affect things, but we need to 
think about these issues

Jon: there are a lot of other things that can rely on those things that 
aren't necessarily accessibility -- headings. I'm also concerned about 
just in time loading of accessibility features.

Jeanne: maybe that's something we can say here pretty simply. Anything 
working outside the DOM has to be properly communicated to the 
accessibility API. I don't want to write that technique but I know 
people who we can go to who do
... highly recommend talking to colleagues who are in PF with these 
issues. If they have looked at this issue and have said it's not a 
problem we need to know the reasoning

<jeanne> Anything working outside the DOM must communicate it to the 
accessibilityAPI

Jon: looking things up -- if you use speech recognition and you want to 
use your voice to programmatically affect an element it's not a two-way 
street
... one of the things that is proposed is the assistive technology 
should be able to communicate back to platforms which includes browsers 
to get a set of the actions that are available to control and to be able 
to perform those actions that are available from the assistive technology
... the concept is good because it provides assistive technology another 
way to get access to the information. What concerns me is if we solely 
rely on that and not the Dom you going to block a bunch of technology 
that can't access the API. It really depends on if there's fall back 
support provided in the Dom. I think it's good but there could be 
consequences that are negative

<jon_avila> https://github.com/cyns/wapa

Kathy: we will leave that for now we can come back and review that again
... the other thing that we had in our list from before and this came 
from the BBC guidelines

<jeanne> DId we already discuss the need for signalling to the user that 
there is information that can be pulled from the side.

Kathy: M19

Jeanne: back to nonlinear -- we need to signal users that there is 
something available

Kathy: I think it's important to have the correct affordances

Jeanne: also focus

Marc: focus order

Alan: question about nonlinear -- is that a side menu coming into the screen

Jeanne: the use case I was thinking of is swiping into an article, how 
do you know

so you don't lose your location on the main page

Jeanne: I think we have a lot in nonlinear

Alan: do we have a list - focus, reading order, should something come in 
and take focus over the reading order that's hidden

Mike: on the nonlinear case it seems like at least two cases -- when 
something slides in from half the screen that the user doesn't initiate 
an ad or something. The other thing is when something happens and when 
the user intends to go to that spot

Kathy: what's an example of where we would do that programmatically. I 
think that would fail WCAG right from the start -- changing action not 
from the user focus but automatically

Mike: example, notification on the screen. Or I tap on a hamburger and 
something slides over half the screen but I intended to do that. 
Sometimes something happens, sometimes user causes it to happen in both 
cases it can be outside the DOM

Jeanne: useful to have these as use cases -- browsers really want clear 
use cases for accessibility problems

Mike: here's another example I think we do this in Yahoo mail so I wont 
suggest whether it's good or bad. If you take an action and a message 
pops up about that action the message will pop up and become part of the 
swipe order on that screen -- it's something the user initiated but it's 
not necessarily happening instantly it's happening sometime later
... another example is pop up banner ads that you don't want to take 
focus to, but that's just the way the website works

Jon: that last case would be a failure of 2.2.2. The first example 
sounds like a non-modal pop-up. I think they are working on that for 
aria 1.1

Kim: if a speech user doesn't realize the focus is going to change, they 
can get in trouble because they're issuing a command that goes to the 
wrong place. You can issue a stacked command and if the focus changes in 
the middle of command execution half the command can execute at a 
different focus point

Kathy: the last one in this list is metadata
... is this a technique that we should also include. Is this something 
that is specific to mobile -- I don't think it is but would like to get 
your thoughts

Jon: could this be advisory? There are some meta-techniquesu under 1.1, 
says future technique, others audio only future technique

Kathy: we could add these in his advisory technique -- is this something 
people think we should tackle? This is really relevant to what the BBC 
is doing.
... it does have some benefit for mobile because you could get an 
alternative version. Can you actually switch the sun mobile -- the 
alternate version of webpages?

Marc: I'm over you can switch to the desktop version

Jon: on the mobile browser generally it's not very apparent

Kathy: maybe if it's not something that's readily implemented within the 
browsers lower priority item because it would be advisory right now

Jeanne: we should look at this in UAAG

<jeanne> *ACTION:* jeanne to research the use of metadata in UAAG as 
related to the M19 technique [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-30 - Research the use of metadata in uaag as 
related to the m19 technique [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2015-05-21].

Kathy: next week will get started on looking at feedback and questions 
from WCAG,, then take a look at understandable, then take a look at this 
as a whole to see if there are any other techniques that we want to do. 
We will also start talking about assignments. Some of them we already 
have in draft format that we can start passing over to the WCAG working 
group.


    Summary of Action Items

*[NEW]* *ACTION:* jeanne to research the use of metadata in UAAG as 
related to the M19 technique [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action01]

[End of minutes]
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$Date: 2015/05/14 16:01:58 $

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___________________________________________________

Kimberly Patch
President
Redstart Systems, Inc.
(617) 325-3966
kim@redstartsystems.com

www.redstartsystems.com <http://www.redstartsystems.com>
- making speech fly

Blog: Patch on Speech
+Kim Patch
Twitter: RedstartSystems
www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch <http://www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch>
___________________________________________________
Received on Thursday, 14 May 2015 16:14:56 UTC