MATF Minutes 7 May, 2015

MATF Minutes 7 May, 2015 link:
http://www.w3.org/2015/05/07-mobile-a11y-minutes.html

Text of minutes:1 <http://www.w3.org/>


  Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference


    07 May 2015

Agenda 
<https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2015May/0001.html>

See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2015/05/07-mobile-a11y-irc>


    Attendees

Present
    Kathy_Wahlbin, Kim_Patch, Jeanne, jon_avila, Kenny, Marc_Johlic
Regrets
    Henny
Chair
    Kathleen_Wahlbin
Scribe
    Kim


    Contents

  * Topics <http://www.w3.org/2015/05/07-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#agenda>
     1. Perceivable Best Practices
        <http://www.w3.org/2015/05/07-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item01>
     2. Provide a way for users to change the font size
        <http://www.w3.org/2015/05/07-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item02>
     3. ensure snap scrolling does not prevent access to content resize
        of text
        <http://www.w3.org/2015/05/07-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item03>
     4. ensure fixed position content does not prevent access to content
        when text is resized
        <http://www.w3.org/2015/05/07-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item04>
     5. contrast
        <http://www.w3.org/2015/05/07-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item05>
     6. WebEx Information
        <http://www.w3.org/2015/05/07-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item06>
  * Summary of Action Items
    <http://www.w3.org/2015/05/07-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ActionSummary>

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<trackbot> Date: 07 May 2015

<Kathy> invite rrsagent

<Kathy> meeting: Mobile A11Y TF

<Kathy> chair: Kathy

<Kathy> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Perceivable_Techniques

Kathy: Perceivable techniques and WebEx today
... last week we talked about smaller screen size, this week 
zoom/modification and linear layout
... we've incorporated the techniques that we had in the techniques list 
from a while back as well as things from the note as well as other 
things that have come up in conversation
... go through each one of those, should they be best practice or 
technique, then identify anything else within zoom or magnification 
that's important to add


      Perceivable Best Practices

Kathy: what are your thoughts on ensuring that the menu can be zoomed to 
200% -- is that a technique we should have in here, is it more of a 
situational best practice?

Marc: is 200% measurable or testable on mobile?

Kathy: in a responsive design you can lock the viewport size into 
maximum scale of 2.0 with 200% so you can look at the viewport settings, 
which is the next one down. So within the viewport we got a way of 
testing because it's the maximum you can get it to. I don't know if we 
have a way of measuring on an app though other than ball parking

Jon: physically measure, if you look at accessibility zoom or pinch zoom 
-- accessibility zoom has a slider that you can actually do 200%

Kathy: there's three different levels -- the OS magnification that you 
can set, we've also got browser functions, and then we've got pinch Zoom 
all based on the viewport settings

Jon: font page hard to tell us something is 18.5 or 14 so you can match

Kathy: would screen size come into play or pixel size or is 200% same 
across devices
... WCAG guideline is 200%
... Greg comments of things we should be thinking about especially in 
terms of large text. I'm going through those now. Maybe he has some 
ideas. There was discussion back and forth -- breakpoints, dots per inch
... sizes overall going to be a challenge with everything we are doing 
on mobile because there's not a good way to benchmark it
... getting back to Jon's comment about Jim Thatcher's page, that was 
easy to set up. Drawing the lines to see what's 200%, that might be a 
good way

Marc: the menu one -- that wouldn't work

Jon: event.scale property on pinch function, does DOM keep track, but 
does app follow that we don't know for sure
... if you go into a larger text there's a slider, and well that doesn't 
show magnification level it does show you different examples of text
... so you could compare them but that's it
... in Firefox there are plug-ins
... I didn't find a lot for mobile browsers, but maybe that's changing

Kathy: is it something we can write or have one of the groups write and 
then reference in a guideline if we can come up with something

Jon: if you look at the actual sufficient technique it has that same 
challenge

Kathy: any insight on the WCAG discussions that went around that?
... as far as writing a best practice or technique is it important to 
have one that calls out a menu specifically

Jeanne: more important to be able to go higher than 200% -- 200% on the 
phone as much at all. For some webpages especially ones that are not 
responsive design you have to go 1000%

Jon: we could put a statement in their we're not saying that by going to 
200% your making content accessible, using because that's WCAG, but we 
are not saying that means that it's going to be accessible to people 
with low vision. Same with contrast
... we don't want to imply that this is somehow a number that makes it 
accessible. It's more of a threshold that we have to realistically say 
once you get to too big you have a very small number of characters or 
words that appear on the screen so for that reason we don't test above that

Kathy: maybe we change that -- note explicitly stating what you and 
Jeanne just said. I think it's much more beyond the menu. I see problems 
where only part of the screen magnifies
... what everybody be okay with just stating that we need to have zoom 
to 200% and a note saying magnification would likely be beneficial to 
those with low vision

Jon: when it talks about menus it says when you increase the font size 
menus may look odd to users. I think the concern is that sometimes- on a 
normal page you might scroll but menus might be fixed size container, 
may be pushed off screen or disappear

Kathy: we need to add notes into our page reflecting that
... keep it as is but address the navigation that is specific to mobile
... maybe we should say to at least 200% instead of 200%

<jon_avila> Menus in particular may present unique challenges when 
content is magnified to 200%. This may occur because menus often appear 
vertically and accessing menu items that scroll out of the viewable area 
may be truncated and/or may present challenges such as menus may 
disappear when the user scrolls the viewable area.

Kathy: what about supporting the characteristic properties the platform, 
zoom, larger font, captions, also darkened colors. A lot coming that 
work on apps but not necessarily on the webside. Thoughts?

Marc: no issues with this one -- for including

Kathy: to what extent should we talk about the characteristic properties.

Marc: has to be open-ended because of the differences among devices

Jon: as a developer you're creating for android, but different hardware

Kathy: on android there's a large variety of settings. IOS it's more 
version numbers

Jeanne: approach it to say write your code so that if the manufacturer 
exposes it that is taken first, then have your own setting as a backup 
if you can't get it from the manufacturer, the platform. And then 
finally if there's a known bug in the platform don't code around it so 
you don't break it for other situations-- well maybe that one should be 
separate because that's a separate issue

Kathy: thinking about the actual implementation if we look at mobile web 
we are thinking about with the browser is doing too. UAAG -- something 
about honoring OS settings?

Jeanne: yes -- by section

<jeanne> Jeanne: If the platform exposes the settings, use them. 
Otherwise, provide an appropriate default setting.

Kathy: what are specific challenges we are seeing around this in terms 
of text size, larger font, zoom things. What are things we are finding 
on the mobile website that would be impacted by setting characteristic 
properties or something that would prevent this from working

Jon: on Safari, font face, but other information I don't know if 
developer has control over, but as long as you meet contrast 
requirements. Provide an option for improved contrast beyond what may be 
available. That gets down to user preference. Is there a current WCAG 
technique for user preference

Kathy: there's also user preference within the browsers

Jeanne: I would think this is more applicable to apps than to websites. 
Websites are at the mercy of does the browser pick up the OS settings -- 
I suppose some APIs that could do it but mostly. But for apps is a 
different story

Kathy: except if you use the Apple system font you get the larger font 
size in Safari because then dynamic text takes effect

Jon: in CSS
... I would be fine just limiting it to software. As far as captions I 
don't know if a webpage would be able to get to a user's caption 
preferences in OS? Automatically if you use a default video player? If 
you use the default video player and it does bring over the caption 
preferences for a webpage we have a strong case to say as a developer 
you need to provide more options
... I'll test that and get back to the group

Kathy: Kevin Earl may have some more information that we can get 
directly where he has done testing
... summing up -- more applicable to apps and media players


      Provide a way for users to change the font size

Jon: Silverlight text elements -- you something similar


      ensure snap scrolling does not prevent access to content resize of
      text

Kathy: very specific case -- anything to add or others that are similar?

Jon: I noticed this -- once I zoomed in when I moved around a thought I 
was scrolling the page so is difficult to access the truncated content
... it's my understanding that the idea in general would be problematic


      ensure fixed position content does not prevent access to content
      when text is resized

Kathy: straightforward -- any comment? Is there anything that's not in 
this list?


      contrast

Kathy: is there anything else we need to consider as far as contrast on 
mobile? Could make a note that it would be beneficial for some users to 
be higher than 4.51, but shouldn't require higher
... WCAG requirement is 1.2 times default, so were not doing anything 
different here.

Jon: does not say in actual standards, it's in the guidance, and that's 
not normative
... G114, G145 all in understanding document

Kathy: I do think it would be helpful if we had some tools to reference 
but I don't know many tools that are out there
... on the tool they were developing is this something that they would 
consider scanning for?

Jeanne: something they were looking at don't know how much detail they 
were going into

Jon: iOS HTML 5, videos always seem to open up to the platform player

Marc: on this contrast one just having that default text size -- is 
there a stated default text size on the IOS

Jon: it's based on the default size for the page


      WebEx Information

Jeanne: the email has the link for the call. You can have it call you or 
you can connect to the meeting with your computer or you can dial in 
directly. I'll put the phone number in the meeting agenda. If you are 
calling in you call in and put in your code
... when I was running test last week if the host wasn't there you 
couldn't get in
... background -- for 20 years MIT has hosted the zakim bridge. They've 
switched over. They've offered us the use of their WebEx system. We will 
lose some features -- see who's on call, raise your hand from your 
phone, but if you are you are using IRC you can use the queue there. 
WebEx has some good tricks -- screen sharing, although not accessibly. 
It allows video. We are not...
... running the...
... latest version. MIT has promised they will upgrade to a new version 
that is supposed to be more accessible but have not done it yet.
... what it does well video, slides, clarity is good, voice over IP. You 
can have it call you doesn't matter where in the world, no restriction 
on being called by the system.

<jeanne> 
https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m53b1b60a6036509754cc27dae8b39a88

<jeanne> 646 316 248

<jeanne> +1-617-324-0000 US Toll Number

Jeanne: set it up to start next week. Key thing is when you login and it 
downloads the little app -- it does it every time. Large audio button, 
click, options use computer, call me

Kathy: we will try to use this next week, we expect there will be 
problems getting in, but we will work with everybody on trying to get 
this set up

Jeanne: we Zakim as a backup if you can't get in on WebEx - still using 
chat. Type present+

Kathy: we will send out instructions to get this to work next week

Jeanne: we have until the end of June to work out the kinks.


    Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]
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