Minutes of Mobile Accessibility Task Force of 10 December 2015

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

              Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

10 Dec 2015

    See also: [2]IRC log

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2015/12/10-mobile-a11y-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Kim, Jeanne, Alan, David, Detlev, Henny

    Regrets
           Alastair

    Chair
           Kimberly_Patch

    Scribe
           jeanne, Detlev

Contents

      * [3]Topics
          1. [4]Questions on existing techniques
          2. [5]2.5.3
          3. [6]2.5.4
          4. [7]Next meeting
      * [8]Summary of Action Items
      * [9]Summary of Resolutions
      __________________________________________________________

    <Kim> trackbot, start meeting

    <trackbot> Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force
    Teleconference

    <trackbot> Date: 10 December 2015

    <Detlev> Is there a MATF meeting today? Can't find the agenda
    in my INBOX

    <Kim> yes

    <Kim> [10]http://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-Extension/

      [10] http://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-Extension/

    <jeanne>
    [11]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/
    2015Dec/0003.html

      [11] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2015Dec/0003.html

    <Detlev> So the name of the proposed technique was "Providing
    touch access for custom controls"

    <jeanne> Detlev: Question on the Technique I was working on

    <jeanne> scribe: jeanne

Questions on existing techniques

    Detlev: I took a slider control as an example
    ... Technique tentatively titled Providing touch access for
    custom controls
    ... how could that control operate when AT was turned on
    ... In an example from Paciello Group, the example gives an
    option to set values on the slider.
    ... for some sliders, that would be acceptable, where there are
    limited values for the slider
    ... it could be the blueprint for an accessible slider

    KP: It's useful for other groups, like speech users.

    Alan: It would be helpful to announce the value range

    Detlev: It should be possible, but I'm not sure it was included
    in Paciello example.
    ... I don't know if it works in Talkback

    Alan: I use a lot of sliders in my work.
    ... it doesn't announce the number, it only announces the
    percentage of distance in the range.

    Detlev: It looks much more difficult with a continuous slider
    ... I am much more concerned with the pass-through gesture.

    Kim: with speech, announcing the percentage works very well.

    Detlev: Do you have to focus first and then speak the number?

    Kim: No, in the Volume example, you just say Volume, then the
    percentage.
    ... In Alan's example, you can interact by sliding it using
    "right 10, right 10". If it is connected to a keyboard, you can
    use speech more effectively.

    <david> sorry late...dialing in

    Jeanne: I am concerned that Patrick and Jon thought it was not
    possible with pass-through gestures

    Detlev: Since pass through gestures can't be relied on, I
    thought the technique should focus on the actions that are
    usable without pass through gestures.

    <david> I'm in

    The Success Criteria that we want the Technique to support is
    "2.5.1 Touch: All functions available by touch are still
    available by touch after system assistive technology that
    remaps touch gestures is turned on. (Level A)"

    <Detlev>
    [12]http://files.paciellogroup.com/blogmisc/samples/aria/slider
    /

      [12] http://files.paciellogroup.com/blogmisc/samples/aria/slider/

    Henny: If we can find an example that uses standard gestures
    instead of pass-through gestures, that would be better.

    Detlev: That's why I like the Paciello slider, it doesn't rely
    on pass through.

    David: putting alot of options in, would be better.

    Henny: Yes, and limit the behavior of native apps as well.

    Kim: Having both absolute and incremental are more useful.

    <Kim> [13]http://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-Extension/

      [13] http://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-Extension/

2.5.3

    <Detlev> scribe: Detlev

    Kim: Any more comments on 2.5.3?

    Kim 2.5.4 Touch target size

    <david>
    [14]http://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-TF-Note/TouchProposal_Disc
    ussion.html

      [14] http://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-TF-Note/TouchProposal_Discussion.html

    <david> this has a discussion of it by Patrick

    <Kim>
    [15]https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/10-21-2015-Survey/resu
    lts

      [15] https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/10-21-2015-Survey/results

    PAtrick commented that touch target size would equally apply to
    mouse input, nothing specific to mobile

    david: Covering a touch behaviour where you slide you finger
    after touch away fro nthe target and still fire the event
    ... That was commented by Patrick - we maybe need to get back
    to him on that
    ... Greg's comment covered a shaky hand use case (peopleunable
    to leve the finger on the touch area)

    Kim: Solution?

    David: Be able to reverse action

    Kim: Two different issues

    David: We should right up the technique and see what people say

    (That applies to "Touch events are only triggered when touch is
    removed from a control"

    David: Gregg wants few / no new SC if possible

    Kim: Henny, any views on 2.5.3 from BBC srtandards perspective?

    <david>
    [16]http://www.bbc.co.uk/guidelines/futuremedia/accessibility/m
    obile/focus/touch-events

      [16] http://www.bbc.co.uk/guidelines/futuremedia/accessibility/mobile/focus/touch-events

    David: Language straight from BBC technique

    Henny: There was no pushback on that techniques, guidelines are
    currently being reviewed / updated

    David will contact Patrick regarding 2.5.3

    David: Feedbaxk from BBC would be useful

    Henny: Not with BBC anymore - no idea whether there was
    feedback on that
    ... Contact Gareth at BBC

    <Henny> Gareth Ford Williams

    <Henny> accessibilityteam@bbc.co.uk

    <jeanne> scribe: jeanne

    <Detlev> Kim: Back to 2.5.4

2.5.4

    <Detlev> thanks Jeanne

    Kim: There are no new comments since the changes. It looks like
    there is nothing else that has to be considered. Is there
    anything about 2.5.4 that needs discussion?

    Detlev: It needs some clarification so that one dimension has
    to be at least 9mm. Either the touch targets are smaller in one
    dimension, the clearance has to go up so you aren't touching
    another target.
    ... it needs to include both dimension and clearance
    ... it will get more complex if you want to include other
    devices, like pointer or touch. Patrick wants this to be
    handled more generally.

    Kim: If you don't know whether the user is using mouse or
    touch, then whatever works for the one that is most difficult
    will do for both.

    Detlev: I don't know how you would tell. Some devices would
    require both.
    ... But including desktop would change the parameters.

    David: I'm hoping our work will end up in WCAG 3, so I would
    like to discuss this and figure out a solution that works on
    all devices.

    Alan: The trouble with mouse is that it is very fine control.
    ... touch is much harder to select.

    jeanne: but people with fine motor problems need a larger
    target even if using a mouse.

    David: If the operating system does it, it's ok, but if the OS
    doesn't do it, the author has to.

    Kim: people who are using speech and zoomtext, have to keep
    going back and forth because the orientation is an issue.

    <Henny> I have to drop off the call. Thanks all.

    Kim: some people want smaller touch targets, so they can orient
    where they are on the page.

Next meeting

    Next meeting on 17th. No meeting on the 24 and 31 of December.

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

    [End of minutes]

Received on Thursday, 10 December 2015 17:35:08 UTC