- From: Kim Patch <kim@redstartsystems.com>
- Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 13:58:48 -0400
- To: "public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org" <public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <544941D8.5010609@redstartsystems.com>
MATF Minutes 23 October 2014 link:
http://www.w3.org/2014/10/23-mobile-a11y-minutes.html
Text of minutes:
Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
23 Oct 2014
Agenda
<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2014Oct/0010.html>
See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2014/10/23-mobile-a11y-irc>
Attendees
Present
Kim_Patch, Kathy_Wahlbin, Jeanne, AWK, Jan, jon_avila, +1.408.425.aaaa
Regrets
Brent_Shiver
Chair
Kathleen_Wahlbin
Scribe
KimPatch
Contents
* Topics <http://www.w3.org/2014/10/23-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#agenda>
1. Q&A <http://www.w3.org/2014/10/23-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item01>
2. 82 <http://www.w3.org/2014/10/23-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item02>
3. G 162 <http://www.w3.org/2014/10/23-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item03>
4. M2 <http://www.w3.org/2014/10/23-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item04>
5. G 162 <http://www.w3.org/2014/10/23-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item05>
* Summary of Action Items
<http://www.w3.org/2014/10/23-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ActionSummary>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
<trackbot> Date: 23 October 2014
<Kathy> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/G162
Q&A
82
<Kathy> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/G162
G 162
Jan: looks good except uses the word before and the point of the changes
that we want to position the labels above
<jon_avila> +1
<AWK> suggestion: "smaller screens, positioning the labels above the
field avoids horizontal scrolling and also increases the likelihood that
a user using the zoom feature will be able to view both label and control."
Kathy: good catch, I'll go back and change
John: width?
Andrew: ignore previous suggestion
... sentence before, instead of screen magnifier, zoom features would be
more generic
Kathy: other suggestions?
Andrew: on smaller width screens
Kathy: other changes?
discussing description change
M2
<Kathy> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/M2
Kathy: this is an advisory under 2.1.1 and 1.4.4, about providing
adequate text size
<jon_avila> The horizontal distance between labels and fields is best
minimized to assist users with low vision and cognitive disabilities to
make the association between the label and the field and to promote the
label and field appearing in the view when content is zoomed.
Mike: invention of swiping left and right was the solution for this.
That someone were to try to solve this for iOS you could actually create
a larger text element because they would overlap something else.
Kathy: will send this back -- remove direction, focus on web content as
far as touch sizes go
... will ask for clarification any time we are referencing something we
need the research.
<jon_avila> http://www.lukew.com/ff/entry.asp?1085
Andrew: MIT study average human finger tip 8-10 millimeters
Kathy: we can go back and ask Alan and more questions on that
Mike: looking for the center of the touch area and trying to apply to
the touch target
Andrew: is this an accessibility issue
Jan: such targets on a map -- always zooming in and out and part of
expected use
Kathy: between an advisory and a sufficient technique this is an
advisory technique so is this something that we should steer away from
-- what falls under an advisory technique versus what would be under
WCAG at all
Andrew: advisory is new. This one feels gray enough. I don't object to
the idea of having an advisory technique that surround this. But I think
if someone said applying the same criteria to other techniques if you
don't do it you would fail a WCAG success criteria the answer would
probably have to be no. I'm not sure what it would fail, because it
impacts anyone using the content and not...
... just a disability. It fits well in Apple's guidelines -- doesn't say
that it's an accessibility issue, just that people need this
Jon: advisory techniques not just things that may be supported the
things that go beyond -- example G 162 it's not required to meet the
success criteria but it can be mapped to a particular success criteria
-- it goes above and beyond
... would be difficult to test because devices have different size
screens. Other option is if we made it a best practice we don't have to
have tests
Kathy: is there a best practice right now under WCAG
Andrew: advisory techniques are best practices
Kathy: we'd originally mapped it to principle 2.1.1 or 1.4.4, then
principal to because it didn't really fit under any of them
Jon: reading definition -- it would be okay to have an advisory
technique that wasn't testable
Andrew: what would make it testable is if you said okay I'm using an
iPhone 6+ and a nexus 7 -- criteria would have to be ratcheted down to
the point where you can say this is how it's done
Jan: instead of specifying type of device, for the mobile thing we are
going to a 5 inch screen versus say a 1 inch watch screen which is also
a type of mobile device. if you design it for the 5 inch screen is going
to be too small on the 1 inch screen.
Kathy: that gets to the organization as far as what's at supporting --
they may say you're not supporting the watch, just this particular
platform. We have to be careful there
<Kathy>
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Technique_Development_Assignments
<jon_avila> Yes!
Andrew: The big question that I have is how do we attach this to WCAG as
an advisory technique -- where in the guideline success criteria do we
attach that. And I don't think there's anyone is going to disagree that
it's something that we want to make sure that we are communicating as a
best practice. Our challenge is where it goes. I wanted to go against
principal two. But as you dive into...
... the guideline level, it's not just about making it work with a
keyboard it's about making it work with your finger. This is
highlighting a gap that we have in WCAG to as far as success criteria
that allow us to attach to something like that.
<jon_avila> Andrew, thank you for joining these calls.
Kathy: we have several like that -- M 2, 4, 7 all fall into the same
category that were talking about now
Andrew: it makes sense to show this is the best practice in the mobile space
Kathy: maybe we should put these on hold, have the WCAG group discuss
them, figure out what direction. These are sticking points. I don't the
implication of writing these was clear until we started writing.
... some sort of guidance -- where could those go and should they be
under WCAG
Andrew: that would be good for the working group to talk about when we
meet and talk about this at the face-to-face so we can have clarity
Kathy: deadline coming up. If people can take preferably ones that are
sufficient technique and get them done that would be appreciated
<jon_avila> The horizontal distance between labels and fields is best
minimized to assist users with low vision and cognitive disabilities to
make the association between the label and the field and to promote the
label and field appearing in the view when content is zoomed.
Jon: I updated G162 on the wiki
<Kathy> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/G162
G 162
Kathy: any objections to accepting as amended
... updating on wiki
*RESOLUTION: send G162 to working group*
Kathy: other comments? We will not have meeting next week because of TPAC
... hoping people can work on techniques in those two weeks and have a
lot ready for November 6
Summary of Action Items
[End of minutes]
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$Date: 2014-10-23 17:52:01 $
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Kimberly Patch
President
Redstart Systems, Inc.
(617) 325-3966
kim@redstartsystems.com
www.redstartsystems.com <http://www.redstartsystems.com>
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Received on Thursday, 23 October 2014 17:59:17 UTC