MATF Minutes 23 October 2014

MATF Minutes 23 October 2014 link: 
http://www.w3.org/2014/10/23-mobile-a11y-minutes.html

Text of minutes:


  Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference


    23 Oct 2014

Agenda 
<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2014Oct/0010.html>

See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2014/10/23-mobile-a11y-irc>


    Attendees

Present
    Kim_Patch, Kathy_Wahlbin, Jeanne, AWK, Jan, jon_avila, +1.408.425.aaaa
Regrets
    Brent_Shiver
Chair
    Kathleen_Wahlbin
Scribe
    KimPatch


    Contents

  * Topics <http://www.w3.org/2014/10/23-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#agenda>
     1. Q&A <http://www.w3.org/2014/10/23-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item01>
     2. 82 <http://www.w3.org/2014/10/23-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item02>
     3. G 162 <http://www.w3.org/2014/10/23-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item03>
     4. M2 <http://www.w3.org/2014/10/23-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item04>
     5. G 162 <http://www.w3.org/2014/10/23-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item05>
  * Summary of Action Items
    <http://www.w3.org/2014/10/23-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ActionSummary>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

<trackbot> Date: 23 October 2014

<Kathy> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/G162


      Q&A


      82

<Kathy> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/G162


      G 162

Jan: looks good except uses the word before and the point of the changes 
that we want to position the labels above

<jon_avila> +1

<AWK> suggestion: "smaller screens, positioning the labels above the 
field avoids horizontal scrolling and also increases the likelihood that 
a user using the zoom feature will be able to view both label and control."

Kathy: good catch, I'll go back and change

John: width?

Andrew: ignore previous suggestion
... sentence before, instead of screen magnifier, zoom features would be 
more generic

Kathy: other suggestions?

Andrew: on smaller width screens

Kathy: other changes?

discussing description change


      M2

<Kathy> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/M2

Kathy: this is an advisory under 2.1.1 and 1.4.4, about providing 
adequate text size

<jon_avila> The horizontal distance between labels and fields is best 
minimized to assist users with low vision and cognitive disabilities to 
make the association between the label and the field and to promote the 
label and field appearing in the view when content is zoomed.

Mike: invention of swiping left and right was the solution for this. 
That someone were to try to solve this for iOS you could actually create 
a larger text element because they would overlap something else.

Kathy: will send this back -- remove direction, focus on web content as 
far as touch sizes go
... will ask for clarification any time we are referencing something we 
need the research.

<jon_avila> http://www.lukew.com/ff/entry.asp?1085

Andrew: MIT study average human finger tip 8-10 millimeters

Kathy: we can go back and ask Alan and more questions on that

Mike: looking for the center of the touch area and trying to apply to 
the touch target

Andrew: is this an accessibility issue

Jan: such targets on a map -- always zooming in and out and part of 
expected use

Kathy: between an advisory and a sufficient technique this is an 
advisory technique so is this something that we should steer away from 
-- what falls under an advisory technique versus what would be under 
WCAG at all

Andrew: advisory is new. This one feels gray enough. I don't object to 
the idea of having an advisory technique that surround this. But I think 
if someone said applying the same criteria to other techniques if you 
don't do it you would fail a WCAG success criteria the answer would 
probably have to be no. I'm not sure what it would fail, because it 
impacts anyone using the content and not...
... just a disability. It fits well in Apple's guidelines -- doesn't say 
that it's an accessibility issue, just that people need this

Jon: advisory techniques not just things that may be supported the 
things that go beyond -- example G 162 it's not required to meet the 
success criteria but it can be mapped to a particular success criteria 
-- it goes above and beyond
... would be difficult to test because devices have different size 
screens. Other option is if we made it a best practice we don't have to 
have tests

Kathy: is there a best practice right now under WCAG

Andrew: advisory techniques are best practices

Kathy: we'd originally mapped it to principle 2.1.1 or 1.4.4, then 
principal to because it didn't really fit under any of them

Jon: reading definition -- it would be okay to have an advisory 
technique that wasn't testable

Andrew: what would make it testable is if you said okay I'm using an 
iPhone 6+ and a nexus 7 -- criteria would have to be ratcheted down to 
the point where you can say this is how it's done

Jan: instead of specifying type of device, for the mobile thing we are 
going to a 5 inch screen versus say a 1 inch watch screen which is also 
a type of mobile device. if you design it for the 5 inch screen is going 
to be too small on the 1 inch screen.

Kathy: that gets to the organization as far as what's at supporting -- 
they may say you're not supporting the watch, just this particular 
platform. We have to be careful there

<Kathy> 
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Technique_Development_Assignments

<jon_avila> Yes!

Andrew: The big question that I have is how do we attach this to WCAG as 
an advisory technique -- where in the guideline success criteria do we 
attach that. And I don't think there's anyone is going to disagree that 
it's something that we want to make sure that we are communicating as a 
best practice. Our challenge is where it goes. I wanted to go against 
principal two. But as you dive into...
... the guideline level, it's not just about making it work with a 
keyboard it's about making it work with your finger. This is 
highlighting a gap that we have in WCAG to as far as success criteria 
that allow us to attach to something like that.

<jon_avila> Andrew, thank you for joining these calls.

Kathy: we have several like that -- M 2, 4, 7 all fall into the same 
category that were talking about now

Andrew: it makes sense to show this is the best practice in the mobile space

Kathy: maybe we should put these on hold, have the WCAG group discuss 
them, figure out what direction. These are sticking points. I don't the 
implication of writing these was clear until we started writing.
... some sort of guidance -- where could those go and should they be 
under WCAG

Andrew: that would be good for the working group to talk about when we 
meet and talk about this at the face-to-face so we can have clarity

Kathy: deadline coming up. If people can take preferably ones that are 
sufficient technique and get them done that would be appreciated

<jon_avila> The horizontal distance between labels and fields is best 
minimized to assist users with low vision and cognitive disabilities to 
make the association between the label and the field and to promote the 
label and field appearing in the view when content is zoomed.

Jon: I updated G162 on the wiki

<Kathy> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/G162


      G 162

Kathy: any objections to accepting as amended
... updating on wiki

*RESOLUTION: send G162 to working group*

Kathy: other comments? We will not have meeting next week because of TPAC
... hoping people can work on techniques in those two weeks and have a 
lot ready for November 6


    Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]
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$Date: 2014-10-23 17:52:01 $

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-- 
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Kimberly Patch
President
Redstart Systems, Inc.
(617) 325-3966
kim@redstartsystems.com

www.redstartsystems.com <http://www.redstartsystems.com>
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Received on Thursday, 23 October 2014 17:59:17 UTC