- From: Jeanne Spellman <jeanne@w3.org>
- Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 11:20:49 -0500
- To: MATF <public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org>
HTML Minutes:
http://www.w3.org/2013/12/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Alan Smith to put a list of third-party
development tools in Mobile Resources wiki [recorded in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2013/12/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#actio
n02]
[NEW] ACTION: KathleenA to contact Windows phone and surface
for resources input [recorded in
[30]http://www.w3.org/2013/12/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#actio
n05]
[NEW] ACTION: Kim to remove duplicates on Mobile Resources page
[recorded in
[31]http://www.w3.org/2013/12/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#actio
n01]
Text of Minutes:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
20 Dec 2013
[2]Agenda
[2]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2013Dec/0002.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2013/12/20-mobile-a11y-irc
Attendees
Present
Kim_Patch, jeanne, alistair, Kathleen_Anderson,
Kathy_Wahlbin, Jan, +1.704.877.aaaa, Alan, Alan_Smith
Regrets
Chair
Kathleen_Wahlbin
Scribe
jeanne
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Mobile Resources and list of mobile assistive
technologies
2. [6]Mobile Challenges
3. [7]Taskforce Deliverables
4. [8]Using Trackbot for Action Tracking – Jeanne
5. [9]Next Steps – next meeting will be Friday January 10
* [10]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 20 December 2013
<Alan_> connection was dropped
<scribe> scribe: jeanne
<KimPatch> take up next
Mobile Resources and list of mobile assistive technologies
<KimPatch>
[11]http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Main_Page
[11] http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Main_Page
KW: We have a lot of resources identified on the wiki. It is
great to see such a great collection of resources.
<Alan_> I think I have all my resources added.
KW: does anyone have more resources to add?
Jeanne has more to add
JR: I added some this morning. I noticed that there are a lot
of duplicates
KP: I'll remove the duplicates
KW: I have had a lot of people ask if this resource list will
be available to the public.
... the wiki is public, so anyone who knows the URI can read it
... one idea is to turn this list into a web page that could be
a deliverable under this task force.
... what else do we need to do to this list to make it a
valuable resource
<KimPatch> ACTION: Kim to remove duplicates on Mobile Resources
page [recorded in
[12]http://www.w3.org/2013/12/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#actio
n01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2 - Remove duplicates on mobile
resources page [on Kimberly Patch - due 2013-12-27].
JR: This is a good list today, but over time there will be
link-rot and it will become less valuable. Maybe we don't have
to declare it as a deliverable and then not have the weight
Alan: There may be copyright issues from the W3C perspective?
JS: We can link to anything without copyright issues, but we
may want to make sure that we want to link to it, because it
will seem to people like an endorsement.
Alastair: There may be vendor issues. It needs to be well
rounded
... check with the vendors to see if they have resources that
they would want to include.
JR: I think there will be equal amounts of iOS and Android
platform support.
KW: Please go through the list of resources and be familiar
with the information that is out there. We will be leveraging
them
Mobile Challenges
KW: We started talking about the needs in the industry for
mobile accessibility. This will tie into the deliverables to
identify the holes that need to be filled.
<Kathy>
[13]http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Mobile_Accessi
bility_Challenges
[13]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Mobile_Accessibility_Challenges
KW: we last talked about challenges and had people put info in
the wiki
... read through that list and see what other missing
information needs to be there for mobile applications and
mobile web sites in an accessible way.
<Alan_> going to drop call and redail in with another phone.
JS: I think we should make a list of 3rd party coding tools
available so that we can start doing outreach to those
companies
KW: I have some contacts and I will add them to the wikis
Alastair: Development for separate platform, and identification
of what the features of the different mobile platform are, so
people can make good choices.
KW: Do you choose the website or the application, is also a
decision.
Alastair: Chromephone is being developed to also run on
windows, which I htink is a precursor to enabling it to run on
multiple platforms
JR: It may be there under OS issues. A lot of accessibility
features are built into the platform itself. And sometimes they
are in browser. Pinch zoom for example could be in the browser,
or can be at the platform level.
... if black on white reverse is set in both the browser and
the platform, it can cancel each other out.
<agarrison> Correction to Alistair line above: Chrome apps are
being positioned to run on windows, and most probably
Chromephone or Chrometab...
JR: the browsers may want to implement things ahead. When do
you remove a feature that has been put into the OS?
... it's another area of challenge
KP: It's feature conflict.
Alan: We have the experience of 3rd party suppliers that make
our apps. The web pages are good, but the mobile apps are
terrible. The 3rd party suppliers say that there are no
standards for mobile, so they feel that WCAG doesn't apply to
mobile devices, and therefore they don't have to do it.
... the developers don't have guidelines to code
... we are trying to develop it internally.
... if they do a custom popup, is it supposed to read every
item, or read the first item and stop?
... if they use 3rd party development tools that create apps
across multiple platforms, they don't support accessiblity
features.
KW: Do you have a list of 3rd part development tools?
Alan: I can make a list.
Alastair: Lack of call from disability groups for mobile apps
to be made accessible. That lack of call from the market, makes
vendors think there is no need.
... we should ask disability groups to give input into this
task force
... there are a lot of tech people who assess things. Perhaps
@@ would be interested in getting involved.
... they don't seem to be driving the market.
KW: I think we have seen a big increase in the number of
companies paying attention to websites, but mobile
accessibility doesn't seem to be there.
... there are a few in the US that have included mobile.
... there isn't a lot of data on mobile use on people with
disabilities.
... the groups could put more information on the use of mobile
by PWD.
JR: The WCAG2ICT document shows how WCAG applies to mobile, and
then add techniquees
AS: It seems to be a challenge to get it into the mindsets of
people.
JS: Perhaps a deliverable of "WCAG Applies to Mobile" with
examples of how WCAG applies to mobile and then move toward
writing deliverables.
KW: I like that idea. Also look at Easy Checks are popular,
writing something easy to read that we could promote.
ALan: I like it
<Alan_> reconnecting
KP: I think one of the problems is lack of call from disability
groups, I think some of the groups have been repeatedly
disappointed. If we can get people excited, I think they will
participate.
<Alan_> 3rd party app development vendors: XBOSoft and
Embarcadero are the two I'm tracking
KW: I think collecting stories of how people use mobile devices
would really help. I still hear people say "A blind person
can't use a touch screen"
<agarrison> +1 for personas for people with disabilities using
mobiles etc
Alan: I know a blind manager of software development. Also a
teacher who trains other teachers how to use devices for blind
users.
KW: We also said designs and best practices for mobile
... WCAG 2.0 and How it Applies to Mobile
... Personas for Mobile
... WCAG Techniques for Mobile and Mobile Apps
... are there other deliverables we should add to this list?
KP: I like the Personas for Mobile. Could we make it more real
for people?
KW: I make video clips of users and bring it into training
classes. What if we got quotes from PWD using mobile, maybe a
short clip into a video persona?
KP: I think you could get people to see the problem instead of
telling them about the problem
AG: 10 years ago WAI and RNIB created a DVD showing real people
with accessibility problems.
<Jan_> BTW: The videos are more watchable when there's some
humour: e.g. [14]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jzah0A6IC5o
[14] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jzah0A6IC5o
AG: Judy Brewer was in it. She was brilliant. I still show it
people.
KW: Best Practices: Do we need things that go beyond the
Techniques?
<KimPatch> [15]http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/charter
[15] http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/charter
KW: if I look back, I see different issues with mobile devices
and laptops. Are there things that would go beyond Techniques
of WCAG?
Alan: I've looked at Mobile Web Best Practices.
KW: It is dated. Do you think we should update it?
<KimPatch>
[16]http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/work-statement
[16] http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/work-statement
AG: It's dated July 2008. I think there are functionalities
that didn't exist in 2008.
... and it is still oritented toward mobile web and not mobile
apps.
<Kathy> [17]http://www.w3.org/WAI/mobile/
[17] http://www.w3.org/WAI/mobile/
<agarrison> Websites that Work DVD from RNIB, with input from
WAI - [18]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwOob9cK7oA
[18] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwOob9cK7oA
<agarrison> DVD from 1999
<Jan_> Here is the WCAG2 for non-Web ICT doc:
www.w3.org/TR/wcag2ict/
KW: I think we have a good start on the list of deliverables.
Kathleen: I have a contact on the Windows8 mobile team, and I
was wondering about where you draw the line on the mobile
devices. Maybe the Surface should be another device.
KW: It is worth collecting the resources
Kathleen: I will ask him about someone on the Surface team.
<Kathy>
[19]http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/List_of_mobile
_assistive_technologies,_and_the_capabilities_and_limitations
[19]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/List_of_mobile_assistive_technologies
Alastair: I foundthe DVD on Youtube and put the link in IRC.
... I made some progress on my action item
... when I see a closed platform there aren't a lot of tools to
make things better, then I see an open platform with a lot of
tools developed.
KW: That's going to be a big help.
KP: I'll put another category on the wiki to plug that info in.
KW: That is a great start.
Taskforce Deliverables
Using Trackbot for Action Tracking – Jeanne
[20]https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/track/
[20] https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/track/
[21]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc
[21] http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc
<KimPatch> ACTION: Alan Smith to put a list of third-party
development tools in Mobile Resources wiki [recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2013/12/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#actio
n02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3 - Smith to put a list of
third-party development tools in mobile resources wiki [on Alan
Smith - due 2013-12-27].
<KimPatch> ACTION: Kathleen to contact Windows phone and
surface for resources input [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2013/12/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#actio
n03]
<trackbot> 'Kathleen' is an ambiguous username. Please try a
different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g.,
spiderwebwoman, kwahlbin).
Next Steps – next meeting will be Friday January 10
KW: Next Meeting January 10. Happy holidays
<KimPatch> ACTION: Kathleen_Anderson to contact Windows phone
and surface for resources input [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2013/12/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#actio
n04]
<trackbot> Error finding 'Kathleen_Anderson'. You can review
and register nicknames at
<[25]http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/track/users>.
[25] http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/track/users%3E.
<KimPatch> ACTION: KathleenA to contact Windows phone and
surface for resources input [recorded in
[26]http://www.w3.org/2013/12/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#actio
n05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-4 - Contact windows phone and surface
for resources input [on Kathleen Anderson - due 2013-12-27].
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Alan Smith to put a list of third-party
development tools in Mobile Resources wiki [recorded in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2013/12/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#actio
n02]
[NEW] ACTION: KathleenA to contact Windows phone and surface
for resources input [recorded in
[30]http://www.w3.org/2013/12/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#actio
n05]
[NEW] ACTION: Kim to remove duplicates on Mobile Resources page
[recorded in
[31]http://www.w3.org/2013/12/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#actio
n01]
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
Minutes formatted by David Booth's [32]scribe.perl version
1.138 ([33]CVS log)
$Date: 2013-12-20 16:07:34 $
__________________________________________________________
Received on Friday, 20 December 2013 16:20:59 UTC