minutes of 2010-09-08 teleconference

Dear all,


The minutes of today's telecon are available for review at http://www.w3.org/2010/09/08-mediafrag-minutes.html  (and in text format below).
We have mainly discussed the 4 public comments so far. No resolution has been taken, as not everybody from the group has given its input . Next weeks teleconf will be an in-depth discussion of it.

Sincere greetings,


Erik

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- DRAFT -

Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference

08 Sep 2010

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Yves, Raphael, Erik, Davy, Silvia
Regrets
Jack
Chair
Erik
Scribe
Silvia
Contents

Topics
Summary of Action Items


<trackbot> Date: 08 September 2010

<raphael> oups, sorry, I notice indeed that the numbers have changed and paste the wrong ones in the agenda

<raphael> this should be the correct numbers Yves, right ?

<erik> scribe: Silvia

<erik> ScribeNick: Silvia

Topic 1. ADMIN

<erik> Date: 08 September 2010

PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 07 July 2010 telecon:

http://www.w3.org/2010/07/07-mediafrag-minutes.html

<erik> +1

<davy> +1

+1

accepted

LC Period: extension?

erik: should be extended till the end of the month

… we have to close everything for TPAC

Yves: extending till the end of the month beyond TPAC is good to get feedback

<scribe> ACTION: raphael to send reminders to all gropus [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/08-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - raphael

<scribe> ACTION: troncy to send reminders to all relevant groups [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/08-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-183 - Send reminders to all relevant groups [on Raphaël Troncy - due 2010-09-15].

erik: there will be a meeting at TPAC

… Davy, Raphael and Yves will be there - Yves can only make it on Tuesday

<Yves> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2010reg/

TOPIC 2. SPECIFICATION

Discussion (Philip+Yves): media fragment syntax grammar (why segment production rule is not normative?), extensibility, pseudo algorithm code

… has not yet happened

close ACTION-175

<trackbot> ACTION-175 Update the grammar parsing automatically generated code for the URI syntax closed

Yves: we need to discuss extension points

… that will trigger what we define as valid media fragments

… will have to wait until next week when we can talk with Philip

<Yves> related also to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Sep/0000.html

erik: we'll discuss it next week

TOPIC 3. PUBLIC COMMENTS

Image sprite in HTML5: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010May/0061.html

erik: this is related to a discussion on the WHATWG

Yves: this is about what to do in the UI with spatial media fragments

erik: the point made is that cropping is requested as the UI effect of media fragments

<raphael> please, consider the use case bring by Europeana and sent yesterday

Yves: we may need to support both, highlighting and cropping, and need to differentiate between them

davy: I think it's application-dependent

… I think we should leave that open

<raphael> ... they are very keen to implement the spec and they really would like to have a keyword in the URI that can refer to a description of any arbitrary spatial shape

Yves: in that case we are not controlling what is presented to the user

<raphael> ... the usage would not be retrieval as for the current spatial media fragment, but address and highlight on client a particular shape

silvia: the WHATWG doesn't want to specify the presentation of media fragment URIs in the HTML spec, but wants it to be in our spec

… that's where it belongs in their mind

<raphael> ... what Europeana wants is a way to address any spatial region, with a media fragment URI

silvia: yes, what raphael says - we may need to introduce another means of specifying arbitrary shapes which can then only be used for highlighting

http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2010-July/026937.html

Davy: they should just use the query parameter

silvia: no, they don't want the cropping to happen on the server, they just want the effect to be specified

http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2010-August/027581.html <- the key thread

http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2010-August/028163.html

davy: do you agree with Ian?

silvia: I didn't but I think he has a point

… maybe we have to specify it and it may even apply to all applications

… or we may need to put an extra mechanism in to specify if we want cropping or highlighting

davy: or we can just specify it as cropping for the browser

Yves: it depends on the application and we need to explain that better

silvia: but the problem is that the researchers in Europe also want to use it in the browser, so it's still the same application

<Yves> effect=highlight (with a default of cropping)

… maybe we should create a new scheme for arbitrary selections and they would just be for highlighting

Yves: I was thinking of adding a parameter

Davy: how does that work with multiple dimensions

silvia: we could do that in the temporal domain, too

Yves: I want Jack's input on this

silvia: this discussion is different to what we looked at before: it's only about what is being presented in the application
... we could do something like add an extension to the region, e.g. xywh=x,y,w,h_crop or xywh=x,y,w,h_highlight

erik: we need to discuss in a larger group

… this is only about how to render something, nothing to do with what goes over the wire

… this in fact relates to all three of the comments we received

Robert Sanderson: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Jul/0010.html <- also

… but the Chris Double comment is different

Chris Double: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Jun/0099.html

Yves: answer to Chris is: it should always send the header, because in the worst case it will send the whole resource

<scribe> ACTION: Yves to email Chris the reply on when to send the range header [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/08-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-184 - Email Chris the reply on when to send the range header [on Yves Lafon - due 2010-09-15].

Yves: Robert wants to be able to extend stuff

… the main issue is that you have no control of what you see on the other end, since the reference URI changes all the time

… this may be an issue

… apart from this, I think it's ok

silvia: I think adding extra name-value parameters to the URI is ok - that's how we built it

… but they want to change the spatial fragment spec, so that's not ok

… they should just add another name-value parameter

erik: seems we need to discuss this next week

TOPIC . Media Fragments in RTSP

TOPIC 4. Media Fragments in RTSP

close ACTION-182

<trackbot> ACTION-182 Include summary into wiki page closed

erik: philip cannot make it next week - let's have the grammar discussion in two weeks

… next week we will focus on the public comments

TOPIC 5. TEST CASES

nobody here for it

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: raphael to send reminders to all gropus [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/08-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: troncy to send reminders to all relevant groups [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/08-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Yves to email Chris the reply on when to send the range header [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/08-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03]
 
[End of minutes]
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$Date: 2010/09/08 10:00:41 $
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Present: Yves Raphael Erik Davy Silvia
Regrets: Jack
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Sep/0001.html
Found Date: 08 Sep 2010
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/09/08-mediafrag-minutes.html
People with action items: raphael troncy yves

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