Minutes of the W3C Rights Automation Community Group 2020-09-02

Please find the minutes of today’s meeting at https://www.w3.org/2020/09/02-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html and pasted below.


Summary of Resolutions

  1.  Accept minutes of previous meeting<https://www.w3.org/2020/09/02-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html#resolution01>
  2.  This group favours the notion of temporal objects<https://www.w3.org/2020/09/02-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html#resolution02>

Best regards,
Phil



Market Data Rights Automation Teleconference 2020-09-02
02 Sep 2020

Agenda<https://w3c.github.io/market-data-odrl-profile/agendas/md-odrl-profile-agenda-2020-09-02.html>

Attendees
Present
Phil, Jo, Ben, Casper_M, Fred_S, Ilya_S, Josh_C, Laura, Mark_B, Mark_D, Michelle_R, Trisha_P, Jeremy_B, Adam_H, Adam_D
Regrets
renato, Paul_K, Chris_C, David_S, Tom_D, Rachel_K
Chair
Jo
Scribe
Jo, Phil
Contents

  *   Topics<https://www.w3.org/2020/09/02-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html#agenda>
     *   Admin<https://www.w3.org/2020/09/02-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html#item01>
     *   Creditor and Debtor<https://www.w3.org/2020/09/02-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html#item02>
     *   Temporal Aspects<https://www.w3.org/2020/09/02-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html#item03>
     *   Properties of Resources<https://www.w3.org/2020/09/02-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html#item04>
     *   Any Other Business<https://www.w3.org/2020/09/02-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html#item05>
  *   Summary of Action Items<https://www.w3.org/2020/09/02-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html#ActionSummary>
  *   Summary of Resolutions<https://www.w3.org/2020/09/02-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html#ResolutionSummary>

________________________________

<jo> scribe: Jo

<scribe> scribe: Phil

Admin

https://www.w3.org/2020/08/19-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html


Ben: all actions done

RESOLUTION: Accept minutes of previous meeting

Jo: a number of new joiners, would anyone like to introduce themselves?

Ilya: creditor / debtor though restrictive by Michelle's colleagues

Creditor and Debtor

<mark_bird> https://github.com/w3c/market-data-odrl-profile/blob/2020-09-02-MB/discussions/2020-09-02/topics.md


Ben: wrote up some example on Github in sentences

<jo> https://github.com/w3c/market-data-odrl-profile/issues/17#issuecomment-682561225


Ben: used promisse and promisor for example
... a couple restrictions on a solution
... the object of the duty is not the neccessarily the party creating the duty
... and the option done to the object is not necessarily beneficial to the party
... maybe actor and receiver best of the options?

Jo: options..
... actor /re
... subject /object
... promoissor /promisse
... obligator /obligatee
... so 4 options, but some concerns

Ilya: one concern is if this meanings can float how do we know from a machine pov what applies?
... might be fine for a lawyer, not a computer
... one sugestion is to make the term static for the duration of the agreement

Ben: subject, predicate, object e.g. x will pay Y, D will consent to E
... what should we call the subjects and objects

Ilya: the problem we have is that the identity changes by design so how does the computer decide

Ben: when a policy becomes an agreement, at that moment the agreement occurs all values are set

Ilya: so vocab is dependant on state of negotiation?

Ben: no, we offering a different policy, "offer" vs "agreement"

Ilya: if you have a human then they can apply the proper identity, but how do computers make a distinction what verb applied?

Ben: working assumption is if I were a provider, my policies would be left open (no assignee yet)
... assignee only populated in an "agreement" policy
... actor doing a payment for example is not specified until the agreement
... we can give guidance in the standard

Ilya: i dont think that helps
... humans in future rarely involved, if terms can change the computer cant make the decision

Ben: in ODRL core model action-related names are given
... put pattern is generic
... we can streamline

Ilya: we appreciate that , but still see a problem down the line

Ben: let's take it off line

Casper: in ODRL relation is function, but we could have hierarchy
... we could allow sub-properties that inherit and have both human and machine readable
... a kind of a half-way house

Jo: maybe an elaboration of this is needed
... Laura's observation on switching round the role

Laura: the fact that the assignee is defined at time of agreement satisfies me but I see the overall concern

Jo: lets take Ben's suggestion to take this off-line to bring clarity to this

Temporal Aspects

Mark: temporal object has a third object that references the two
... now definitions can change over time, but have a single point of reference
... is there any reason not to have temporal support?

Ben: feedback is that implementors need stability and track of change
... it is a step away from ODRL
... Casper suggested offering temporal aspects to general ODRL
... i believe ODRL group will receive the suggestion generously

Ilya: ODRL may want to adopt themselves?

Ben: yes

Ilya: even in the media world there are right that change over time

Jo: Ben to take an action to go to ODRL community group

Ben: do we all want all ODRL constructs temporal?
... we will have to make a decision from an implementation point of view, what is temporal and what is not

Ilya: i think that we should make it a generic notion

Ben: if assigner or assignee changes we would version the permission, not properties
... actions, duties, assets and permission definitely need versioning
... e.g. if the assigner changes we version the permission

Ilya: if we have to change the report from licencee?

Ben: the change is then in the duty

Ilya: so we roll up temporal aspects to highest order object

Ben: important this is simple to implement, so roll up of temporal aspects helps. It is a balance.

<jo> ACTION: Ben to approach ODRL Community Group with proposal for a temporal profile and report back to this group with reaction and likely timescales if favourable

Jo: so again action is Ben to take to ODRL community group

<jo> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: This gorup favours the notion of temporal object

RESOLUTION: This group favours the notion of temporal objects

Jo:

Properties of Resources

Mark: Did we want to think about other properties?

Ben: now is the moment to raise that

Mark: topics page: https://github.com/w3c/market-data-odrl-profile/blob/2020-09-02-MB/discussions/2020-09-02/topics.md

... reads through "Properties of Resources"

Ben: i want to free to update the standard with all of these terms
... at any time they can be ammended
... if any are not clear or potentially unclear please could we hear from all now
... i have started adding terms to the standard

<jo> https://w3c.github.io/market-data-odrl-profile/md-odrl-profile.html


Jo: do we need platform?

Ben: not a description of the resource itself, so no
... we will come to those terms but they don't describe the resource
... "location" is a hot topic, we will come to that too
... its on permission not resource

Ilya: we do have data sets that blur the lines

Ben: i think the permission handles this
... it's not a description of the resource itself

Laura: is content type on the list?

Ben: content type is but is dependant on asset class

<jo> scribe: Jo

Phil: Content type is much over-used - Laura's point re text, pictures etc. may need to be captured

ben: some descriptions may help us route back if there is no descriptor

ilya: maybe asset class would be useful

ben: asset class is definitely e.g. indices
... the content type is within that

<scribe> scribe: phil

Mark: possibly having a different term for this particular use may free us up later

Ben: its not a sub-type of asset class
... we could use it in two contexts?

Olga: is it free form?

Ben: keen to use a controlled vocabulary

Mark: intraday?

Ben: intraday is a "lazy flag", we could drop it

Ilya: nettable resources, should be add?
... we receice content from 3 different providers for same user
... some contrcat allow netting of cost, ie count one

Ben: sounds like a permission element, not resource

<jo> ACTION: Ilya and Olga to provie illustration of what is meant by nettable

Jo: too short of time for next topic
... is not necessary to vote yet on resource terms before including them in the standard

Any Other Business

Jo: hearing none

<jo> ACTION: Ben to convene further discussion as to the creditor/debtor discussion

<scribe> ACTION:

Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Ben to approach ODRL Community Group with proposal for a temporal profile and report back to this group with reaction and likely timescales if favourable
[NEW] ACTION: Ben to convene further discussion as to the creditor/debtor discussion
[NEW] ACTION: Ilya and Olga to provie illustration of what is meant by nettable


Summary of Resolutions

  1.  Accept minutes of previous meeting<https://www.w3.org/2020/09/02-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html#resolution01>
  2.  This group favours the notion of temporal objects<https://www.w3.org/2020/09/02-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html#resolution02>
[End of minutes]