Re: [EXTERNAL] Notable mention of rich math applications, "details-on-demand"

Deyan,

I really like the toggle notation/variable feature. I think it is better
than pop ups for this purpose because you can see the context better. It is
something that widespread support of MathML will enable because then people
can count on where something is and could do text layout around the math
and have the other end of the arrow actually point to somewhere near the
math symbol/term and know it will work in all the browsers. When the math
input gets converted to something else such as spans, you can't do that.

I'm not a fan of the colorized-math-equations
<https://betterexplained.com/articles/colorized-math-equations/>, but maybe
people who see colors better than I do would like it. I find it way too
busy, distracting, and hard to read.

To follow up on Patrick's link for Euclid's Elements. A friend of mine did
something for a "live" (colored) version of Euclid's elements
<https://saltire.com/apps/> where you can play around with the diagrams. He
published in the Apple App Store. It's not free though (it's $6). I've
played with it some during development and found it quite interesting.

    Neil


On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 12:28 PM Patrick Ion <pion@umich.edu> wrote:

> Thanks, Deyan, for bringing a modern document form to
> our attention, and not just for the math relevance.
>
> I can't resist bringing up a bit of history in regard to
> colored math.  A significant earlier work was
> Oliver Byrne's version of Euclid (which I saw
> in Cork), written while he was Surveyor of the
> Falkland Islands,
>
> https://www.c82.net/euclid/
> see also
> https://www.princeton.edu/~graphicarts/2008/05/euclid_in_color.html
>
> Note: it really gets going with Book II in using
> colored symbols.  You can buy a copy these days:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Oliver-Byrne-First-Elements-Euclid/dp/3836544717
>
> David Joyce (https://mathcs.clarku.edu/~djoyce/)
> did his early Java applet-based Euclid with colors in the diagrams
> https://mathcs.clarku.edu/~djoyce/java/elements/elements.html
>
> Then there was the idea discussed years ago at a Paris TeX
> meeting of using color to indicate, say, for a Lie group $G$,
> its Lie algebra as $\color{green}G$, its enveloping algebra
> by $\color{red}G$, its representation ring by $\color{orange}G$
> and so on.  I may have seen this style actually used in practice,
> but cannot recall a definite reference at present.
>
> All the best,
>
>    Patrick
>
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 9:44 PM Murray Sargent <
> murrays@exchange.microsoft.com> wrote:
>
>> Very cool stuff. A less difficult way of achieving the pop-up annotations
>> of the first link is to put href’s on the variables. Perhaps that’s what
>> Bruce and David are doing…
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Murray
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Deyan Ginev <deyan.ginev@gmail.com>
>> *Sent: *Friday, September 11, 2020 9:25 AM
>> *To: *public-mathml4@w3.org
>> *Subject: *[EXTERNAL] Notable mention of rich math applications,
>> "details-on-demand"
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear MathML Refresh enthusiasts,
>>
>> A very pleasing review article was published at DistillPub today,
>> examining the various communication aspects of "interactive articles".
>>
>> In Figure 8 they have a small SVG showcase of a feature some of us
>> here have experimented with in the past via MathML, providing a short
>> "legend" of each constituent of a math expression.
>>
>> Pieces of their example directly overlap with our main scope (names
>> for dot product, integral over closed surface), and pieces are in the
>> gray zone we are currently discussing (q is "the amount of charge in
>> coulombs")
>>
>>
>> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdistill.pub%2F2020%2Fcommunicating-with-interactive-articles%2F%23details-math&amp;data=02%7C01%7Cmurrays%40exchange.microsoft.com%7C416ae94ca77c4468495908d8566f4e0a%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C637354383352852160&amp;sdata=RlIcBzOkmBNSBBrfnQkMNL9xn19tJmnhdVCRBXMCcKc%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>
>> They also linked to a nice older resource I remember, which seemingly
>> introduced the didactic technique of coloring math in web documents
>> with colored text in parallel:
>>
>>
>> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbetterexplained.com%2Farticles%2Fcolorized-math-equations%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7Cmurrays%40exchange.microsoft.com%7C416ae94ca77c4468495908d8566f4e0a%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C637354383352852160&amp;sdata=DPD2kOpiBDb6VGEuhjopZUKevR9U1vBGnPG3%2FcqLnIs%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>
>> One thing to remark is that this "details-on-demand" application is
>> out-of-scope for our "a11y semantics" charter. At the same time, the
>> application is - at least in my mind - requiring the same "degree of
>> annotation" to be enabled, as the minimal requirements are 1) knowing
>> the operator structure/content tree and 2) knowing the
>> names/properties of the constituent objects. So this may be a
>> "sibling" or "cousin" application to the a11y/information retrieval
>> applications we've been discussing.
>>
>> Something to chew on, and wishing everyone a great weekend!
>>
>> Greetings,
>> Deyan
>>
>>
>>
>