Minutes: MathML intent meeting, 5 Nov, 2020

*The meeting was recorded:
https://benetech.zoom.us/rec/share/Jd-szRHtTdxRYvd0ROt4rO6iSZyAj8R2qlPjMoY2SW5QdFCWpCEvNoepEKOgt8V4.ehxmoV9sZw1GJXBv
<https://benetech.zoom.us/rec/share/Jd-szRHtTdxRYvd0ROt4rO6iSZyAj8R2qlPjMoY2SW5QdFCWpCEvNoepEKOgt8V4.ehxmoV9sZw1GJXBv>
Passcode: Fo+T1$P?  Starts about 11 minutes in.Attendees:Neil SoifferLouis
MaherMoritz SchubotzBruce MillerDavid CarlisleDeyan GinevSteve NobleMurray
SargentDavid FarmerThanks to Louis Maher for taking the minutes. It was a
very lively discussion with lots of technical points about a screen share
that Deyan made. So the minutes and recording may be harder to follow than
usual.1. Move to WG -- making sure there is consensus to do this. Last
chance to make comments on charter.Draft charter is at
https://mathml-refresh.github.io/charter-drafts/math-2020.html
<https://mathml-refresh.github.io/charter-drafts/math-2020.html>. PI: has
editorial changes. NS: Consensus agreement on moving forward to form
WGAction Item: NS will move the charter to the working group.NS: Hopefully
when we are a WG, we will get more participation from the vendors.2.
Continue discussion based on Deyan’s (live demo) ideas:
https://dginev.github.io/tiny-mathml-a11y-demo/
<https://dginev.github.io/tiny-mathml-a11y-demo/>DG: The core formula gets
buried in the general syntax.You want to reduce the markup.NS: Can you use
a nested approach to simplify the syntax? Something where the table points
to the rows and the rows concatenate the contents.DG: is concerned with
where to break the line, and the types of meanings that are implied with
the line-break (several top-level formulas OR e.g. single right-hand-side
expression broken across several table rows, in the same index column -
e.g. column 3 in the demo examples).DC: Do not use a table markup at all
for top-level formula if RHS is single expression, just put the RHS alone
in a table.DG: Note that real documents have expressions aligned so that
they can stack vertically and horizontally (e.g. row of 12 columns, col 1-3
contains one expression, col 5-7 second, col 9-12 third. Each of those
expressions can be line-broken on multiple rows).NS: Mark it up at the top
level. MS: In OfficeMath with the math paragraph, we haveThis also gets the
binary plus instead of a unary plus at the line break because the layout
program knows that a manual line break is inserted.Moritz Did not
understand how the equals sign was being shown. What is the difference
between $op and $ number.DG: OP = operatorNot much difference between $op
and $number, short-term implementation conveniences. They could all be
numbers. Details to be decided later (mostly cosmetic).Moritz: What is the
advantage of DG’s system and the standard implementation.DG: pmml+a11y
avoids doubling the tree size.NS: Concerned that you have to keep two trees
linked. NS: UUsing Intent you would only have to add small amount of
syntax.  Progressive refinement. If the Intent was missing, then the math
would still be shown.Moritz: Inventing a new technology would have the same
complications as the current systems.BM: You still have the problem of
having the presentation and content mathML synchronized.Moritz: Will
demonstrate a content MathML example next week.DC: With core, content
MathML is not valid.NS: Believes content MathML is still valid. The parser
will still accept it.Browsers do not do anything with content MathML.DG:
There are more problems with content MathML than we have discussed w.r.t
adoption.NS: SD: and MS: will do demonstrations next week.We will meet
again next week.DG: Post-meeting note, here is a reference to my use of
“sigil”:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigil_(computer_programming)
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigil_(computer_programming)>*