Minutes: MathML Core Meeting, July 13, 2020

Attendees:

   -

   David Carlisle
   -

   Neil Soiffer
   -

   Brian Kardell
   -

   Murray Sargent
   -

   Bruce Miller
   -

   Louis Maher
   -

   Patrick Ion



Agenda:
https://github.com/mathml-refresh/mathml/issues/8#issuecomment-657287706

The meeting was recorded:
https://benetech.zoom.us/rec/share/_uBNNqzJ_GFOHoXgz2_HYfITEcfvT6a82iNIqfRZn0tklRgJC7xO0F-uDOSMdK46
Password: 5u*N=?yo  [call starts about 50 minutes into the recording]

like: #221 <https://github.com/mathml-refresh/mathml/issues/221>

BK: said he and others were confused by the definition of “mrow-like” in
the spec. What properties of mrows are shared between them?

NS and DC: it is just a list of elements-- it says nothing about the
properties.

BK: people read things into the name and ask how they are “like” each other.

BK: FW suggested in a comment on the issue it could be renamed as “grouping
elements” and potentially similar names for “scripted elements”. I think
that is less confusing.

NS: There is no definition for “script-like”, so this is really just about
changing the one name unless FW is planning on a bigger rewrite which
doesn’t seem necessary.

Resolved: Change “mrow-like” to “grouping elements” -- some rewording will
be needed to make it flow.

[Pi  afterwards:  Since the word “mrow-like” is observed to throw some
sensible people off,

it’s worth rewording to achieve better communication.  As Stephen Pinsker
observes, it is

difficult to put oneself in the point of view of someone who hasn’t learned
what you have, but this is frequently the basis of improved communication.
In this case, for me, an <mrow> as a ‘horizontal grouping’ device seems
natural enough, with row used for a largely horizontally arranged
collection and column for a vertical one.  I have to agree that sometimes a
row of mathematical signs making up a formula can grow too long on a
typical printed or displayed page not to be subject to ‘line-breaking’;
indeed that can happen to text or even a word depending on line-lengths


Status of #139 <https://github.com/mathml-refresh/mathml/issues/139> ?

Plan is to follow SVG (which doesn’t have SVGUnknownElement). BK to talk
with the SVG group to try and synchronize any resolution.

NS: Seems like there are a number of cases: known HTML elements, “dashed”
unknown ones (potential custom elements), and undashed ones like <foo>.
These may or may not be in the MathML namespace

BK: Some HTML elements are special and cause MathML parsing to stop, others
end up in the HTML namespace and work. <a> is an example of that. That does
the MathML desired linking but maybe not all of <a>’s properties in Gecko
and Webkit.

[NS After call: based on testing, it appears many html elements will end
the MathML (e.g, h1, p, div, ul, li, table, hr, br, …). <a> doesn’t nor do
some others (form, input, select, button, …). Unknown elements like foo and
foo-bar do not terminate MathML parsing]

BK: I will write some tests, and that will help determine the spec.
MathML WG?

There was some discussion about when to form a WG. DC worried about the
amount of work needed to get the full MathML spec into shape. BK worries
about getting started earlier enough so that core can have normative
references. TPAC meets virtually in late October. It would be good to have
a draft ready for that so we can get feedback before moving to a formal
application to become a WG. NS will schedule a call in the next two weeks
to brainstorm ideas for what goes into a charter.