MathML Core Meeting Minutes 29/7/19

The meeting was recorded and more details of the call can be found by
listening to the recording:
https://benetech.zoom.us/recording/play/Nklb5sC2O7iM01jm2Y-aZ-aOjo76VVfGpY76PuESO2gj-VwAf-CaVY4zf6xKLiVT

We will meet again next week at the same time.

Thanks to Rob Buis for taking most of the notes.

Attendees:

   -

   Neil Soiffer
   -

   Fred Wang
   -

   Sam Dooley
   -

   Rob Buis
   -

   Patrick Ion
   -

   Brian Kardell (late)
   -

   Bruce Miller



Agenda:

https://github.com/mathml-refresh/mathml/issues/8#issuecomment-515834009

css painting order #52 <https://github.com/mathml-refresh/mathml/issues/52>

NS: more data in issue since last meeting.

FW: prefer a text approach where text is always visible (MathPlayer like
behavior)

PI: I like that also.

BM: I need to think about this a bit. I lean in that direction also because
I hate to see content hidden by the background.

RB: What did MathML 3 say?

NS: Nothing -- but new spec is suppose to nail this down. In non-browser
cases (full spec), it is probably good to leave this unspecified.

NS: I don’t care much which way we go because this is an edge that people
probably shouldn’t do.

NS: What is easier to implement?

FW: Not sure -- depends whether block-display vs inline-block is used for
the elements

NS: Are we going to end up having to specify block-display or
inline-display because of the way we specify margins or some other CSS
property.

FW: Maybe investigate -- see how hard it would be for Chromium to do it the
other way.

Resolution: postpone until we find out the difficulty of changing behavior.

Action Item: FW to see how hard it would be to change current behavior in
Chromium as an indication of how hard it would be for other implementations
to change.

embellished operators and space-like elements

NS: explains issue, codepen, negative mo/rspace with mtext around it.
Suppose superscript with base with operator with left and right space set.
What is lspace/rspace part of?

FW: ?

NS: where does lspace/rspace move to?

FW: lspace/rspace go to mrow

NS: refers to MathML3 (
https://www.w3.org/TR/MathML3/chapter3.html#id.3.2.5.7)

MathML Core: https://mathml-refresh.github.io/mathml-core/#layout-of-mrow

NS: <mrow><mo lspace/rspace/><mtext/></mrow>?

FW: simplify rules?

NS: no. if core operator is in mrow with other elements, then lspace/rspace
apply to operator.

FW: is that an embellished operator?

NS and PI discuss use cases. Not common.

FW: need to have concrete examples

AP: Neil lists examples and create an issue.

[https://www.w3.org/TR/MathML3/chapter3.html#presm.mo and the text about
lspace and rspace is at 3.2.5.7.5]

Action Item: Neil to write up an issue to explain this better

vertical writing mode #18
<https://github.com/mathml-refresh/mathml/issues/18>

NS:  some examples in the issues seem internally inconsistent

FW: explains test cases. Japanese one is interesting, vertical but
sometimes math part is horizontal.

NS: is this just bad typography? Look into japanese testcase, not all parts
are intuitive, does it make sense to japanese people? Is it correct,
trustworthy? Good typesetting, or just what the software supports/is easy
to do?

PI: not all parts are clear to me, like part 3. What about colors?

FW: change of direction only inside token element?

PI: can read only parts of it.
<https://github.com/mathml-refresh/mathml/issues/18> But the red formula is
supposed to be an example of a block formula, and the green an inline; they
are explicitly labelled as such.  Note the blog is actually entitled CAS-UB
for Cloud Authoring Support - Universal Book - so its dealing with exotic
cases.

[Google Translate does a very promising job.]

BM: is it about fitting into the line (column) width?

FW: seems to be about fitting to some width indeed.

FW: I read css writing mode. There is a remark “this is complicated, we
need help” when dealing with alignment. This is an indication that it maybe
we should avoid it.

FW: how to specify alignment for text in vertical layout?

FW: proposal for this, do we need a new property value though

NS: could work in internal contents, not leaf elements themselves

NS: proposal: only supported on math element

FW: in current spec, no need to change.

NS: gives fraction inside square root example. How does it work?

FW: What to do about CSS. Say it is inherited vs ignored.

FW: My proposal is to allow everywhere, only allow on <math> and inside token
elements with foreign content.

NS: Let’s get someone who’s knowledgeable about Asian math typography to
see if this is just bad typography or that’s just the way they do it.

Resolved: get more input.


<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
Virus-free.
www.avg.com
<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>