LVTF Meeting Minutes 6/1/17

Meeting minutes at link and pasted below:
http://www.w3.org/2017/06/01-lvtf-minutes.html

Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
01 Jun 2017


See also: IRC log


Attendees
Present
      Jim, Erich, Shawn, ScottM, steverep, Laura, Glenda, Wayne
Regrets
      Marla
Chair
      SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
      erich
Contents
      Topics
            Understanding Docs.
            https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/tree/master/understanding/21
            Issue 10 Interface control Contrast (coming up next week on AG)
            Font width
            icon fonts
      Summary of Action Items
      Summary of Resolutions



<allanj> zakim clear agenda


<scribe> scribe: erich


<ScottWeb> Weeeeeee


Understanding Docs.
https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/tree/master/understanding/21


JA: They've created a shell for all the understanding docs
... Chairs decided SC Managers would need to fill out the needed
information
... SC Managers need to start working on them
... We can morph the wiki to look more like the understanding docs


LC: Have started mine, but can put in to the wiki


WD: Linearization is becoming narrower and narrower


LC: they seem to need to be narrowed to get consensus


GS: agree, but doesn't mean to just let it get too narrow, need to continue
to push


<ScottM> Some of these issues affect COGA as well, how are they addressing
these issues?


WD: Some things marked essential are not actually essential


SR: lots of discussion on Zoom Content, Alastair does great at separating
minor differences, wondering if they can be covered under 1 SC


JA: have a query in about getting CFC on Zoom Content


WD: letting go of linearization, and limiting the characters, could prompt
the realization


JA: I have edited all wiki and issue pages with links to understanding docs


<laura> Understanding Adapting text in Github:
https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/adapting-text_ISSUE-74-78-79/understanding/21/adapting-text.html


<laura> In the Wiki:
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Understanding_Adapting_Text


Issue 10 Interface control Contrast (coming up next week on AG)


<allanj> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/10


<allanj> gs: does lvtf make authors responsible for color contrast when the
browsers don't do it right in the first place


GS: question is are we going to hold developers responsible for things
browser doesn't provide (should browser vendors fix)?


<steverep> Can you catch us up on what fails? 4.5 or 3?


<allanj> http://w3c.github.io/low-vision-SC/luminosity-form-controls.html


SR: language about if author has or hasn't modified was added at the end,
needs to be cleared up


WD: have a million developers who would need to make this change, 200
million people impacted by it


<laura> Should we be filing bugs?


<allanj> bugs have been filed on Video elements


GS: am saying that we should go to the browser vendors to make the change


<allanj> Jim will file bugs on contrast of form controls


<laura> User agent control: the appearance of the target is determined by
the user agent and is not modified by the author.


<laura> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/60


GS: language I was proposing would parallel Target Size


<allanj> +1 to adding UA exception


SR: wording doesn't specify what consitutes a modification


GS: should we say the colors are not modified


SR: think that would clear it up


<Glenda> User agent control: the colors of the UIC are determined by the
user agent and are not modified by the author.


LC: should it be contrast?


GS: we can't provide the contrast, only color


<Glenda> User agent control: the color contrast of the UIC the user agent
default and is not modified by the author.


<Glenda> User agent control: the color contrast of the UIC is the user
agent default and is not modified by the author.


<Glenda> Proposal 2: User agent control: the color(s) and surrounding color
(s) of the UIC are the user agent default and are not modified by the
author.


<allanj> testing: if anything in the the stylesheet changes the color of
the component or the background color surrounding the component, then the
color contrast must meet wcag


JA: unless author has plain white page, and doesn't touch colors of form
controls, then they have to touch it


WD: what if author changes background color in a way that meets it?


JA: then they are done, and didn't break anything


<Glenda> User agent control: the color(s) and adjacent color(s) of the UIC
are determined by the user agent and are not modified by the author.


<steverep> User agent control: The color(s) of the user interface component
and any adjacent color(s) are determined by the user agent and are not
modified by the author.


<ScottM> +1


+1


<Glenda> +1


<laura> +1


<allanj> +1


<ScottM> +1,000,000,000,000


JA: we had mentioned doing research and sending out examples, is that still
useful?


GS: I think useful, but may not have the resources


JA: may have some time and will see what we can do
... Anything else needed on this?


GS: Don't think so


JA: Graphics Contrast is in the current document without any problem
... The next time they publish another working draft, they will include
links to the understanding documents


Font width


WD: have an issue with Font Family
... Not sure where to go with the response about including Chinese, Arabic,
and about 95 total according to Unicode


SH: You might send a note to the nationalization folks


<allanj> CJK fonts are square


WD: please send the nationalization contact info


SH: ok


<laura> May want ot check with Makoto.


<shawn> for wayne -- internationalization interest group:
https://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/i18n-ig/ Under "How to Join", you have
to subscribe to the list before you can send a message...


<allanj> steve: So do we not want to add a buffer to character spacing? I'd
be more comfortable if we do.we already have *letter spacing (tracking) to
at least 0.12 em in https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/78


<allanj> sr: if user changes letter spacing and font size, will they still
pass the SC


GS: have a question about updating the understanding document
... went in to make the change, and link says you can't commit to the
master because it's a protected branch


JA: I put the wrong link in, and will fix it


<allanj> wd: letter spacing and font changes are about 20% container width


<laura> Understanding Adapting text:
https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/adapting-text_ISSUE-74-78-79/understanding/21/adapting-text.html


WD: what if we put limits on the font length and authors could be allowed
to change fonts within that range


<allanj> wd: verdana is about the widest "normal" font


<allanj> wd: font can't vary more than 1% from Norm. if user chooses a
wider font .... it is on them


WD: Would say maximum range we would allow would probably be less variance
than changes in resolution developers already need to deal with
... my proposal would be to set a limit, and I can do the due diligence


JA: How are we doing on Icon Fonts?


<laura> Add technique for identifying CSS generated content-images #297
https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/297


SR: I don't think that adding role=img is the best fallback


<allanj> laura and Wayne will work on fonts for Adapting Text #78


icon fonts


<laura> Providing a Semantically Identified Icon Font with role=img


<laura>
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Providing_a_Semantically_Identified_Icon_Font_with_role%3Dimg


SR: realy think it should be tied to 1.3.1


<allanj> SR: trying to make it a technique for 1.3.1


<allanj> sr: many problems with accessibility support. things that work
from screen reader work differently with zoomtext.


<allanj> .... also with aria-hidden,


<allanj> SR: need to push role=img on icons


<allanj> wd: what about abbr?


<allanj> SR: then identifying as text, issues with emoticon and others


<allanj> ... if its a graphic should be marked as a graphic.


<laura>
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Providing_a_Semantically_Identified_Icon_Font_with_role%3Dimg


<allanj> ja: there is overlapping conflicts with accessibility for one
group interfering with accessibility for a different group


WD: from this discussion, we need more refined semantics


<allanj> ... aria- stuff is hidden, overrides visual labels for speech
input folks.


<allanj> ... mouse over behaviour is different from screen reader behavior


Summary of Action Items
Summary of Resolutions
[End of minutes]
                                                                                        
                    Erich Manser                                                        
                    IBM                                                                 
                    Accessibility,                                                      
                    IBM Research                                                        
                    Littleton,                                                          
                    MA / tel:                                                           
                    978-696-1810                                                        
                    Search for                                                          
                    accessibility                                                       
                    answers                                                             
                                                                                        
                                                                                        
                                                                                        
                                                                                        
                                                                                        
                                                                                        
                                                                                        



You don't need eyesight to have vision.