RE: Simplifying popup interference

  *   “Except for popups presented by the user agent, popup content does not render any of its triggering content invisible, and remains visible while pointer hover or focus is on the popup content.”

I’ve seen this as well.


  *   Now that I’m thinking about it again, what if the author creates a popup that doesn’t appear directly adjacent to the trigger?  In that scenario, I’d have no way to move my mouse onto it without it disappearing.  Should we worry about that?  Anyone come across that in practice?

I have seen roll overs like this where you roll over something on the left which changes content on the right.  I see this less now with touch screens – but it used to be popular in training materials in the last decade.

Jonathan

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From: Repsher, Stephen J [mailto:stephen.j.repsher@boeing.com]
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 12:08 PM
To: Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu>
Cc: public-low-vision-a11y-tf <public-low-vision-a11y-tf@w3.org>
Subject: RE: Simplifying popup interference

Hey Jim,

User agent control (e.g. title attribute tooltips) is something I forgot to add, so good catch.

Regarding focus inside the popup… First, I was trying to simplify by not saying it needs to stay visible while hover or focus is on the trigger because that’s inherent in the popup, right?  In other words, if it appears on hover or focus of a trigger, then of course it stays visible until that is removed (unless authors are out there building timers into that content…hmm…).

But really, I think we need to consider focus within a popup because I find they contain links all the time.  The biggest example is a navigation menu that works only on hover and focus.  Consider this scenario:

  1.  Extra content with a few toggles or links appear.
  2.  I cannot see it that well so I realize I click down and miss my target, so I move my pointer away before letting the button come up so nothing is activated.
  3.  Now focus is inside the popup and not on the trigger, so if the content disappears then I need to start all over again, reorient my vision to the menu, etc.  I only have one chance to get it right.  If it stays visible, I have the chance to correct my mistake much more easily, especially if I don’t need to worry about where my mouse is at that point.

I think it was Gmail that used to have a menu where this happened to me all the time.

I’m not in favor of elongating the wording to bullets unless it really adds clarity, so assuming you agree with my focus argument, how about just:

“Except for popups presented by the user agent, popup content does not render any of its triggering content invisible, and remains visible while pointer hover or focus is on the popup content.”

Now that I’m thinking about it again, what if the author creates a popup that doesn’t appear directly adjacent to the trigger?  In that scenario, I’d have no way to move my mouse onto it without it disappearing.  Should we worry about that?  Anyone come across that in practice?

Steve

From: Jim Allan [mailto:jimallan@tsbvi.edu]
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 4:31 PM
To: Repsher, Stephen J <stephen.j.repsher@boeing.com<mailto:stephen.j.repsher@boeing.com>>
Cc: public-low-vision-a11y-tf <public-low-vision-a11y-tf@w3.org<mailto:public-low-vision-a11y-tf@w3.org>>
Subject: Re: Simplifying popup interference



On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 12:06 PM, Repsher, Stephen J <stephen.j.repsher@boeing.com<mailto:stephen.j.repsher@boeing.com>> wrote:
​<snip>​


If not, here’s some simplified wording perhaps to restart the engine:

Popup Interference:
​​
Popup content does not render any of its triggering content invisible, and remains visible while pointer hover or focus is on the popup content.

​Popup Interference:
For content that appears on hover or focus, the following are true:
1. ​
​
Popup content does not render any of its triggering content invisible
2. Popup content remains visible while the pointer is on the popup content or focus is on the triggering content

​Except where

  1.  User agent control: The
​popup is ​
determined by the user agent and
​is
 not modified by the author
​.​
Reworded the second clause to cover different behavior for hover pointer, and focus. Focus would stay on the triggering content and the pointer is free to move around. the only way I can think that focus would get into popup content is if the popup is a modal type window... which is different from popup that are transient. That is, content that does not need a specific close mechanism ([x] on modal windows).
The exception covers the "title" attribute popups and pointer obscuring popup

Jim

And where we define popup as “becomes visible only on pointer hover or focus”.

Critique away…

Steve




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