Minutes: Low Vision Task Force telecon 20 July 2017 from Jim Allan on 2017-07-20 (public-low-vision-a11y-tf@w3.org from July 2017)

From: Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu>
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 11:52:27 -0500
To: public-low-vision-a11y-tf <public-low-vision-a11y-tf@w3.org>
Message-ID: <CA+=z1WnDnhRz6yzgM+g_xr5pOhn8RBRpuHXSG4Jo=LkRHGCQHw@mail.gmail.com>
Happy 48th anniversary of humans landing on the Moon!!

source: http://www.w3.org/2017/07/20-lvtf-minutes.html
<http://www.w3.org/2017/07/20-lvtf-minutes.html>


Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 20 Jul 2017

See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2017/07/20-lvtf-irc>
Attendees
Present steverep, erich, Laura, Shawn(part) Regrets Marla Chair Jim Scribe
Laura
Contents

   - Topics <https://www.w3.org/2017/07/20-lvtf-minutes.html#agenda>
      1. Fixed Headers (related to 77 resize content)
      <https://www.w3.org/2017/07/20-lvtf-minutes.html#item01>
      2. Popup Interference (MetaData on Hover)
      <https://www.w3.org/2017/07/20-lvtf-minutes.html#item02>
      3. Reflow/linearize
      <https://www.w3.org/2017/07/20-lvtf-minutes.html#item03>
      4. personalization
      <https://www.w3.org/2017/07/20-lvtf-minutes.html#item04>
      5. Reflow/Linearize
      <https://www.w3.org/2017/07/20-lvtf-minutes.html#item05>
      6. Popup Interference (MetaData on Hover)
      <https://www.w3.org/2017/07/20-lvtf-minutes.html#item06>
      7. printing <https://www.w3.org/2017/07/20-lvtf-minutes.html#item07>
   - Summary of Action Items
   <https://www.w3.org/2017/07/20-lvtf-minutes.html#ActionSummary>
   - Summary of Resolutions
   <https://www.w3.org/2017/07/20-lvtf-minutes.html#ResolutionSummary>

------------------------------

<allanj>
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2017JulSep/0243.html

<allanj> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/75#issuecomment-309306101

<allanj> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/58

<allanj> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/76

<allanj>
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2017JulSep/0243.html

<allanj> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/75#issuecomment-309306101

<allanj> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/58

<allanj> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/76

<shawn> Hi Jim. my 8:00 meeting is still going and I need to stay in there.
:( I hope to be done before we get to the get to the printing topic

<allanj> scribe: Laura
Fixed Headers (related to 77 resize content)

Jim: Adapting text is in

<JohnRochford> Jim: Congratulations to Laura for the Adapting Text SC!

<allanj>
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2017JulSep/0243.html

Jim: Thread from Alastair on fixed headers

AC: most sites work well with our model. But grey area is fixed areas.
... can obsure 80% of content with fixed headers.
... media query can fix it
... need to define it.
... it is a tricky one.
... would be nice to have a failure. But not sure how to get it in.

Jim: Having it in the understanding doc seems reasonable.
... maybe a technique

SC: yes we can come up with a advisory technique. Have one in mind.

wayne: We can’t do everything at this time.
... we could put pictures in the techique.

Jim: would we test in portrait and landsacpe?

AC: should be covered in the existing SC text.

jim: add to the descriptiion.

<alastairc> Technique for: Using media queries to check for sufficient
space of elements fixed to the viewport

AC: will draft a technique.

<allanj> *ACTION:* Alastair to add text in description about fixed headers,
and an advisory technique such as "Using media queries to check for
sufficient space of elements fixed to the viewport" [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2017/07/20-lvtf-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-99 - Add text in description about fixed headers,
and an advisory technique such as "using media queries to check for
sufficient space of elements fixed to the viewport" [on Alastair Campbell -
due 2017-07-27].
Popup Interference (MetaData on Hover)

jim: we have 4 weeks left before AG deadline for SCs
... do we need any more on reflow?
Reflow/linearize

AC: need to take away CSS so everything is vertical.
... lots of sites are unusable when you do this.
... more difficult. But think it is still on the table.

Laura: maybe ping David.
... David is the SC manager.

Wayne: think this is a lower priority.
... needs UA support.

A

AC: will take a lot of effort.
... lots of work still left to do on Adapting Text and Zoom

Jim: up to 400% we almost have linearization?

AC: it is different.
... zoom is cleaner.

Jim: any objections to lower prority for this one?
... no objections heard.
... personization group will be forming. Will send out info on it later
today.
personalization

<allanj> https://www.w3.org/TR/personalization-semantics-1.0/

<allanj> Task force in preliminary forrmation. LisaS and John LaPierre
co-chairs
Reflow/Linearize Popup Interference (MetaData on Hover)

<allanj> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/75

<allanj>
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Wayne%27s_Metadata_Scratch_pad#Current:

Jim: link to waynes Scratch pad

<allanj> For informational content that appears on hover or focus, all of
the following are true:

<allanj> Turn Off

<allanj> The informational content can be turned off

<allanj> Neither obscures nor is obscured

<allanj> The informational content does not obscure the triggering content
nor is it obscured by the pointer

<allanj> Other method

<allanj> hover and/or focus are not the only means of accessing the
informational content

<allanj> Not important

<allanj> does not include information necessary to perceive content

<allanj> Note

<allanj> This does not apply to user agent rendering of the title attribute.

Jim: that is the current wording.

<allanj> mgower comment:
https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/75#issuecomment-313684490

jim: mbgower had some concerns.
https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/75#issuecomment-313684490

<allanj> he had issues with outline on links. and why this is against focus.

<allanj> ja: if something has additional content, don't want it to pop up
on hover or focus. want to know additional content exists and hit enter to
make it appear and esc to make it go away

john: it can obscure

<allanj> wayne: if outline (thick obscures) it shouldn't be there.

John: thin borders can obscure

Jim: The informational content can be turned off
... mike G said to use mechnism

<allanj> mgower suggested: a mechanism is available to allow user control
for the display of non-persistent textual information.

<allanj> evil mechanism word

<allanj> wayne: is it important to turn on/off

<allanj> laura: depends

https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Wayne%27s_Metadata_Scratch_pad#Current

<allanj> reveal preseencse then activate in soem fashion

<allanj> reveal presence then activate in some fashion

<allanj> original wording: Informational content that is only shown by
hovering a mouse over an element is not used as the only means of conveying
information and does not obscure other content.

steve: for turning off what is the mechanism?
... how am I going to turn it off?

<wayneDick> Meta Data on Hover · be fully visible, · be available on focus
as well as hover · be available via any input method. · not be obscured,
and · not obscure important content that is related to the triggering event.

<wayneDick> Meta on Hover

steve: what is the other means?

jim: icon

<wayneDick> be fully visible, be availableon focus as well as hover, be
available via any input methos, Not be oblcuredd, not oblcure essential
content

<allanj> sr: if we eliminate focus/hover, what's left?

<JohnRochford> Gotta go, folks.

<wayneDick> full visible, available on focus as well, not obscure essential
content

<allanj> sr: if not available on focus fails 2.1.1 - keyboard access

<allanj> For informational content that appears on hover or focus, all of
the following are true

<allanj> all popup content is visible on the page, or a way to get to it to
read it. (if you move mouse then no longer hover and tooltip vanishes)

<allanj> sr: stuff running off the page, view a specific size/resolution.

steve: problem with stuff running off page.

<allanj> ... focus is not triggered on hover.

<allanj> ... if box appears when you hover over an icon, user should be
able to move mouse to box and the box should not disappear until mouse off
of the box

<allanj> sr: should be any content

<allanj> ... user can fully access content that pops up

<allanj> ... user can get to information behind it also

<allanj> lc: content is not obscured by or obscures triggering content.

Laura: Informational content that appears on hover or focus neither
obscures nor is obscured by the triggering content.

<steverep> To cover the one case: Content that becomes visible on hover or
focus remains visible while hover or focus is on the triggering content or
the appearing content.

<allanj> 1. not obscure triggering content

<allanj> 2. triggered content remains visible while mouse is on triggered
content, or focus remains on triggering content.

<allanj> gs: do we want authors to fix this, or can we get browser vendors
to fix this. it will be a tough sell

<allanj> sr: is this pointer dependent. if you have arrow pointer (even
giant) - don't put tooltip in lower right, unless swap to left arrow then
lower left is problematic

<allanj> lc: perhaps an advisory technique

<allanj> ja: tooltip is a browser thing. author created popups they can
control

<Glenda> We have an exception related to “user agent control” in UIC
Contrast Minimum. Jim, maybe you can be inspired by that language for this
one too “User agent control

<Glenda> The color(s) of the user interface component and any adjacent
color(s) are determined by the user agent and are not modified by the
author.”

<allanj> *ACTION:* jim to create popup rewrite [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2017/07/20-lvtf-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-100 - Create popup rewrite [on Jim Allan - due
2017-07-27].
printing

<allanj> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/76

<allanj> wd: need to create a list of things that are necessary were
dropped because of scope or browser issues

<allanj> change font family and color

<allanj> tooltip behavior

<allanj> linearization

wayne: It works in firefox.

Jim: things can break.

<allanj> this has browser implications

Jim: is a browser issue in many ways.

wayne: 200% is the best you can do.

<allanj> ja: all of the spacing trickles thru to printing, but not font
size or zoom

<steverep> I know we're on printing, but here's my stab at Popup
Interference: Popup content does not make its triggering content invisible,
and remains visible while hover or focus is on the popup content or its
triggering content. (where popup is defined as "appears on hoveror focus")

Jim: will post tesing to the list.

<allanj> specify media in the CSS to change printing font size

<allanj> +1 steve

shawn: fine with 200%.

<allanj>
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Printing_Customized_Text#Examples

shawn: thinks we should drop the zoom.

<allanj> wayne: CNN is a failure of 1.4.4 on printed page.

<allanj> need to reword SC to the authors makes print style sheet as
flexible as on screen layout for accommodating adapting text spacing

<allanj> trackbot, end meeting
Summary of Action Items *[NEW]* *ACTION:* Alastair to add text in
description about fixed headers, and an advisory technique such as "Using
media queries to check for sufficient space of elements fixed to the
viewport" [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2017/07/20-lvtf-minutes.html#action01]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* jim to create popup rewrite [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2017/07/20-lvtf-minutes.html#action02]

Summary of Resolutions
[End of minutes]

-- 
Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
Received on Thursday, 20 July 2017 16:52:53 UTC