LVTF Meeting Minutes: Jan 5, 2017

Minutes at link, and pasted below:
http://www.w3.org/2017/01/05-lvtf-minutes.html erich

Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
05 Jan 2017


See also: IRC log


Attendees
Present
      allanj, Shawn, JohnR, ScottM, Laura, Marla, Erich, JohnRochford,
      Glenda
Regrets
Chair
      Jim
Scribe
      Erich
Contents
      Topics
         1.	Spacing https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/78 (Laura)
         2.	Interactive Element contrast
            https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/10 (Glenda)
         3.	Color/Contrast - Focus indicator
            http://www.glendathegood.com/a11y/colorcontrastblackwhite.html
            (Glenda)
         4.	Combining Line Length(57) and Reflow (58) see row 5
      Summary of Action Items
      Summary of Resolutions



<allanj>
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XShLFX8fxHYYLn8A6avDwu37w9JfnZCGWvAKBpK9Xo4/edit#gid=1491179377


<scribe> Scribe: Erich


Spacing https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/78 (Laura)


Jim: Laura had something to bring up about spacing


Laura: has received lots of feedback, seems to be strong opinions out there


Marla: When writing an SC, it would seem the goal is to not block some
features to enable others


<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say users have a mechanism with HTML - use
desktop browser and user CSS and to say line spacing is most important
(certainly most used) requirement other than


Shawn: If a mechanism is available, can we say you need to use a desktop
browser. If I have content, and I need to increase the line-spacing, I
wouldn't be able to do that on today's handheld devices, but I would on
today's desktops.


<allanj> reader on Safari, Edge reflow page and change font, color, and
spacing


Laura: Alastair had suggested some different woring to that extent, and
Patrick felt the wording was not the problem, you would need a widget.


Shawn: Maybe we should talk to Patrick


Laura: It might be good to give him that perspective.
... We will run across this with many of our SC's


<allanj> lots of low vision folks can't do things on mobile


Shawn: It's a fact that many with low vision will simply not be able to do
some things on mobile devices' small screens


Jim: Wayne had talked about if the author has put on element-level CSS and
marks it important, you can't overwrite that


<allanj> shawn: perhaps a failure technique


Shawn: That could be a failure technique
... This still gets in to providing content in a format that is
accessibility supported


<JohnRochford> BRB


Jim: I was looking at Font Family and it needs a bit of an overhaul


Wayne: I could do it


Shawn: Would like Wayne's thoughts on if something can be supported in
desktop browser, it can be considered supported even if not in mobile
browsers


Wayne: we also faced this with reflow
... one of the reasons they constructed Resize Text the way the did is
because you couldn't word wrap on mobile
... If you have something that's so resistant you can't do it, it doesn't
mean you still shouldn't do it for everything you can


Jim: Maybe we can take the wording from Reflow or Resize and put in to Font
and Spacing


Wayne: If we can show it can be done, it would be great, but don't think
Font is going to be able to be done at this time


Shawn: Is browsers good enough, does it need to be in HTML and something
else?


Laura: for Resize Content, it includes exemptions


<laura> Resize Content: https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/77


<JohnRochford> Link for VIP PDF Reader =
http://www.access-for-all.ch/en/201-englisch/500-vip-pdf-reader-e.html


Wayne: Post-process language would let them off the hook, but wouldn't mean
we need to give up Font Family and all this other stuff in instances where
they can do it
... it's a 2.1 compromise because we're so locked in the rigid development
guidelines
... at the wcag 2.0 level, then you can't hold the authors responsible for
it. Our point is if you can't do it in some, it doesn't mean you don't
require it in others where y ou can


<allanj> wayne: why does something not not working in one technology not
allow the sc for other technologies. We are asking for HTML on desktop


<JohnRochford> John offers Wayne a tip about using GitHub.


Interactive Element contrast https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/10
(Glenda)


Glenda: I have about 48 different comments, have handled about 22 of them
... Jim and I have been working to update it on GitHub


<Glenda> Change items for #10
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/SC_Managers_Phase1#Glenda_Sims_.28.40Goodwitch.29


Jim: I will just copy from the wiki, format it, and put it back up


Glenda: Great, I think we're close, just charting exact changes I am making
... Wanted to call out #3 specifically, as we are moving to Silver, which
we talked about on last call, but just wanted to overcommunicate it


Wayne: Really good work!


Glenda: We've had some discussion, Bruce Bailey was talking about item #10,
like printer button image with no words on it, why can't this be covered in
#9


Marla: If you move the buttons that don't have text to a different SC
because they're more of a graphic, is that going to change a requirement to
that element versus if that element contains text


Glenda: Gets back to the word change from "important" to "essential"
... If the text is in the image, even that is going to meet the old 1.3.3


(correction: 1.4.3)


<Glenda>
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Contrast_(Minimum)


Glenda: I've started to process rest of the comments on the wiki, so you
can see examples using simple images


Jim: I am happy to help with those
... Perhaps the icon ones could be done in actual size


Glenda: good idea


<allanj>
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Contrast_(Minimum)#Description


<laura>
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Contrast_(Minimum)#Sufficient_Contrast_Examples


<ScottM> ;


<laura> Thanks for your excellent work, Glenda.


Color/Contrast - Focus indicator
http://www.glendathegood.com/a11y/colorcontrastblackwhite.html (Glenda)


Glenda: I wanted to think about whether we're chainging somebody in to a
box with this one
... Took a really small color palate, and thought how many in that palate
would contrast by both white and black by at least 3:1
... Discovered there are 77 that contrast by at least 3:1, and if you round
up, there are three that contrast by 4.5:1
... Hex reduces each down to three digits.


Marla: Great research, could this be a technique?


Glenda: Need to bounce that around with someone who really understands
color. Wanted to raise to be sure heading in a good direction


<ScottM> this is good solid info that authors can use to pick colors


Glenda: I will reach out to Alastair, unless anyone on this call has the
color understanding


<allanj> there is a technique of overlaying outline and border to make a
black and white focus ring that should work everywhere


<JohnRochford> Ciao everyone.


<ScottM> Apple does that with the voiceover cursor


Combining Line Length(57) and Reflow (58) see row 5


Jim: There is proposed language, we can discuss here, but you can also jump
in to the comments


<allanj> issue 57


Wayne: one of the issues separating the two is that they were pretty
complicated in their own right, so separating is not a bad thing


<allanj> "LVTF Issue #58: Content can be viewed as a single column with all
information in the correct reading sequence, except for the following:


<allanj> * Data tables may retain their multi-column format with reflow.


<allanj> * If the user agent cannot reflow content containing interactive
controls, the author is exempt from reflow with this content."


<allanj> "LVTF Issue #57: For the visual presentation of all text, a
mechanism is available such that line length is user adjustable, to 25
characters, with no two-dimensional scrolling required, and with the
following exceptions.


<allanj> * If the user-agent fits the layout to the view port, and does not
provide a means of re-flowing content, then two-dimensional scrolling is
exempt.


<allanj> * If the spatial layout of text is essential to its use, then
two-dimensional scrolling is exempt."


<allanj> proposed combination 1


<allanj> "Content can be viewed as a single column, with blocks of text in
this column user adjustable to 25 characters without requiring two
dimensional scrolling, one of the following is true:


<allanj> * The content is in a data table.


<allanj> * The content contains interactive controls that the user agent
will not reflow.


<allanj> * The user-agent fits the layout to the view port, and does not
provide a means of re-flowing content.


<allanj> * The spatial layout of text is essential to its use.


<allanj> "


<allanj> OR


<allanj> All content can be viewed as a single column with reflow; blocks
of text in this column are user adjustable to 25 characters without
requiring two dimensional scrolling, except where reflow would cause
distortion or loss of information.


<Glenda>
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XShLFX8fxHYYLn8A6avDwu37w9JfnZCGWvAKBpK9Xo4/edit#gid=1491179377


<laura> SCs that do not meet SC acceptance criteria per David's
spreadsheet:
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/David_MacDonald_SC_Notes_on_LVTF_SCs#SCs_that_do_not_meet_SC_acceptance_criteria_per_David.27s_spreadsheet


Jim: Alastair's rewrite said 'except where reflow would cause distortion'
... Laura did you post these because they don't meet?


Laura: No, i think both do


Marla: Reading the testability of line-length, i'm assuming viewport refers
to size of browser window, but if part of the test is manipulating zoom
level, can it pass if using a combination of the two, and is that
reasonable?
... zoom level can also impact number of visible characters


Wayne: adding zoom level testing technique to viewport size in the SC is a
good idea


Jim: That covers agenda for the day


Wayne: I have an announcement - I took 100 lines of several well known
published works, discovered greater reading efficiency at 700% with
word-wrapping than at 300% with horizontal scroll


Jim: Please send me your findings, to be added to the wiki


<laura> Bye

                                                                                       
                    Erich Manser                                                       
                    IBM                                                                
                    Accessibility,                                                     
                    IBM Research                                                       
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