W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-low-vision-a11y-tf@w3.org > November 2016

RE: Line Length

From: Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 15:23:08 +0000
To: public-low-vision-a11y-tf <public-low-vision-a11y-tf@w3.org>
Message-ID: <DM5PR03MB2780E6FFED82BB66D0B322E09BBB0@DM5PR03MB2780.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Wayne, the challenge with changing the requirements based on screen size is knowing when that occurs.  For something like HTML it is straightforward to get the viewport width.  With other technologies I'm not sure they can detect this information and adjust.  It does make sense to allow for more flexibility on smaller width views.

Jonathan 


-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Dick [mailto:wayneedick@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 4:25 PM
To: Jonathan Avila
Cc: public-low-vision-a11y-tf
Subject: Re: Line Length

Thanks Jon,
I mean reading anything more than spot checking (menus and buttons) a few words or lines. For example, I can read short emails and text messages if they are not too long (rare), but reading the content of a webpage with an article is usually impractical. I would read that on a laptop.  I would love to get into email and text messages, but I think they are out of scope for WCAG. Web based email clients are another story.

What I am thinking is this:
For pixel range 1921 or greater do : Do Exhibit Size -  Content author's responsibility?
For pixel range between 800 and 1900: Content author's responsibility is basically the SC main goal. (30 to 45 characters) For  pixel range between 600 and 799 do medium case (tablet) - content author' responsibility? The hardest case.
For pixel range between 300 and 599 do small case (cell 320px) - content author may fit no more than 35-40 characters on a line.

Or do we draw the lines on adjustable user agents?

Wayne



On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 11:42 AM, Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com> wrote:
>> Here is the issue. Reading on cell phones is almost out of reach for 
>> anyone with visual acuity 20/60 or greater
>
> Wayne, what do you mean by reading?  Do you mean reading more than a few lines, reading a book, or what?  I read emails, web pages, and text messages everyday with the large text setting.  But I certainly would not read a book or anything longer than a news article.  Mobiles come in different sizes too and that also makes a big difference.
>
> Jonathan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wayne Dick [mailto:wayneedick@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 2:15 PM
> To: Jonathan Avila
> Cc: public-low-vision-a11y-tf
> Subject: Re: Line Length
>
> To Jon, Shawn and All,
> I think the problem of no word wrapping on  pinch zoom is a problem with mobile browsers, and there is not much you can do with content.
> Almost every page out there fails 1.4.4 if we require word warping.
>
> Here is the issue. Reading on cell phones is almost out of reach for anyone with visual acuity 20/60 or greater.  So, why hold up criteria for a technology that is not used. The point is this. As the screen size shrinks, there comes a point where a  person becomes effectively blind.
>
>
> Now if you look at a small laptop with an 11-inch screen the universe of line length and sizing is completely. Almost all user agents accommodate view port resizing, and reflow is available for HTML and PDF. Reflow that allows zooming is available.
>
> Should we vary the criteria by screan size? Accessibility breakpoints?
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 10:22 AM, Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com> wrote:
>>> I don't know of users having problems with getting the line length that they need. As long as there's reflow, then users can change the viewport size. On mobile, don't need it any smaller.
>>
>> One problem I run into is the ability to reflow on mobile.  Other than getting a site to respond to the large text settings in the OS by using system fonts or using the browser reader function which omits content it seems that most of the time I have to pinch zoom on mobile even on responsive sites because there are no breakpoints below 320.   So you end up with horizontal scrolling.
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Shawn Henry [mailto:shawn@w3.org]
>> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 12:59 PM
>> To: Wayne Dick; public-low-vision-a11y-tf
>> Subject: Re: Line Length
>>
>> (for those who missing the end of the teleconference :-)
>>
>> I don't know of users having problems with getting the line length that they need. As long as there's reflow, then users can change the viewport size. On mobile, don't need it any smaller.
>>
>> So my question is: Do you know of any situations where people cannot get the short line length they need?
>>
>> If not, then maybe we say that while this is a user need, it's covered in existing environments, so we put it lower priority to get into 2.1.
>>
>> The potential problem I can see is if developers can disable viewport resizing -- or if a new format/tool didn't provide it.
>>
>> ~Shawn
>>
>> On 11/8/2016 1:31 AM, Wayne Dick wrote:
>>> I think it is ready.
>>> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Line_Length

>>>
>>> One more down,
>>>
>>> Wayne
>>>
>>
Received on Friday, 11 November 2016 15:23:45 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Friday, 17 January 2020 16:23:23 UTC