Minutes: Low Vision Task Force 1 Dec. 2016 from Jim Allan on 2016-12-01 (public-low-vision-a11y-tf@w3.org from December 2016)

From: Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu>
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 12:07:31 -0600
To: public-low-vision-a11y-tf <public-low-vision-a11y-tf@w3.org>
Message-ID: <CA+=z1WkuS7oHHzCgoXLbVH89xoNFkcfoBCecz_-R3uTjZWJ24A@mail.gmail.com>
source: http://www.w3.org/2016/12/01-lvtf-minutes.html
<http://www.w3.org/2016/12/01-lvtf-minutes.html>


Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 01 Dec 2016

See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2016/12/01-lvtf-irc>
Attendees
Present Shawn, Wayne, Jim, Alastair, Alan, Laura, Marla, Scott, Erich,
Glenda, JohnRochford Regrets Chair Jim Allan Scribe wayne, allanj, alastairc
Contents

   - Topics <https://www.w3.org/2016/12/01-lvtf-minutes.html#agenda>
      1. Metadata on Hover
      <https://www.w3.org/2016/12/01-lvtf-minutes.html#item01>
      2. Text Colors
      <https://www.w3.org/2016/12/01-lvtf-minutes.html#item02>
      3. Metadata on Hover
      <https://www.w3.org/2016/12/01-lvtf-minutes.html#item03>
      4. Printing Customized text
      <https://www.w3.org/2016/12/01-lvtf-minutes.html#item04>
      5. Size of all Content
      <https://www.w3.org/2016/12/01-lvtf-minutes.html#item05>
      6. Font Family
      <https://www.w3.org/2016/12/01-lvtf-minutes.html#item06>
      7. seeing all interface elements
      <https://www.w3.org/2016/12/01-lvtf-minutes.html#item07>
   - Summary of Action Items
   <https://www.w3.org/2016/12/01-lvtf-minutes.html#ActionSummary>
   - Summary of Resolutions
   <https://www.w3.org/2016/12/01-lvtf-minutes.html#ResolutionSummary>

------------------------------

<laura> Scribe List:
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Scribe_List

<Wayne> scribe: wayne
Metadata on Hover

<allanj> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Metadata_On_Hover

Jim: Metadata on hover.

Alastair: This defines informational content, and it does limit tool-tops

Marla: The icons logos and symbols in like editors where the tool tips are
necessary for knowing what they are.

Alastair: The author must not rely are not recognizable (universally)

Marla: That will be hard to enforce.

Alastair: You can use too tip if it doesn't obscure content.

Alan: The original issue is the mouse blocks information.

<allanj> ack

Glenda: This is something that could be solved at the browser.

Jim: There is an out make the same functionality with the keyboard. Hover
and focus solves multiple wayse.

Alan: Focus tool tips are not out in general.

<alastairc> For each item of content that is [add]only[/add] shown by
hovering your mouse over an element

Glenda: Content is available by a method other than mouse hover.
... add "for example on focus"

Marla: For a technique we need to add scripting to make this work.

Jim: Mouse pointer covering the tootip. How does it work?

Alastair: Either you cannot read the tool tip or the tool tip covers
something else. You cannot rely on the cursor to relay information.

Jim: I made my tooltip hoverable, but the mouse still covers

Alastair: If you can use keyboard focus.

Marla: I moved away from the original content.
... Rather within the limits of the OS, but they must be keyboard
accessible.
... Mouse user may be excluded from tool tips

Alastair: If we cover the cursor that may need to go to Silver.

Jim: We have a good and useful SC then without the cursor issue.
... The SC covers everything but cursor covering content.

Alan: The tool tip will overlap something.

Marla: The reason the screen shot (perkins) the screen zoom follows the
mouse and the mouse will cover elements. Suplemental unnecessaryu
information is in the way.

Alastair: Maybe we need a refined definition if informational conent.

<alastairc> Wording: Content whose primary purpose is to provides
information, not navigational or functional elements such as links, buttons
or menus.

<shawn> +1 for getting it in today

+1

<shawn> Laura: We'll work on it some more under WCAG WG
Text Colors

<allanj> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Text_Colors

<allanj> scribe: allanj

marla: " foreground and background colors chosen from the full range of
color choices provided by the user agent" does it include extensions

wd: yes
... issues - hidden text (same fg and bg color), place holder.

marla: able to view text includes placeholder text

wd: discuss css

jim: concerns about what authors can do to implement this. can authors
block user changes?

wd: it is possible for authors to block changes. code level css with
!important will block user css
... issues with background images. will disappear with high contrast

<ScottM> +q

gs: background images are important to high volume sites. cannot exclude
background.

wd: can't reflow bg image.

<Zakim> allanj, you wanted to say if keyboard functionality works then
hover is ok

wd: other ways to do things other than sprites.

scottm: bg images are faster. poor alternatives to bg images for screen
reader users. lv users remove bg images to improve the view and loose
functionality.

<laura> agree with scott

<laura> WCAG already has: F3: Failure of Success Criterion 1.1.1 due to
using CSS to include images that convey important information:
https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20161007/F3.html

alastair: does a page become unusable when background images go away. there
are specific cases. there are better ways of doing things.

<Glenda> I’m comfortable with this proposed SC moving forward…I think this
discussion will happen again at the WCAG WG level.

marla: add "without loss of content or functionality" to cover the image
issue or other color things that pop up.

wd: or "without loss of important information"

<erich_manser> +1 to adding "without loss..." text

<alastairc> Changed to: Users must be able to change foreground and
background colors chosen from the full range of color choices provided by
the user agent, without loss of important information.

ja: is this ready to go?

<alastairc> +1

+1

Glenda, alan, laura, wayne good to go.

*RESOLUTION: Text Colors
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Text_Colors
<https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Text_Colors> ready for
WCAG 2.1*

<Wayne> scribe: wayne
Metadata on Hover

<allanj> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Metadata_On_Hover

<allanj> changed def of Informational Content: Content whose primary
purpose is to provide information rather than navigational or functional
elements such as links, buttons or menus.

<laura> +1

+1

<ScottM> +1

<alastairc> +1

<Alan_Smith> +1 meta data on hover

<shawn> Marla +1

<allanj> marla +1

<erich_manser> +1

<allanj> +1

<Glenda> +1

*RESOLUTION: Metadata on Hover is ready for WCAG.*
Printing Customized text

<allanj>
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Printing_Customized_Text

Take up new menu item

<allanj> alastair: this works already

<allanj> sh: not in pdf

<allanj> sh: author is responsible to present information in a form users
can modifiy.

<allanj> Any objections?

Shawn: We need a technique.

<allanj> technique - ensure CSS width only add to 100%

<allanj> marla: apply to pdf

<allanj> shawn: applys to all content. cannot meet this with pdf

<allanj> alastair: covered by "accessibly supported" in WCAG

Alastair: It already has two techniques.

Jim: Test with print preview; zoom and print;

Shawn: Use browser font settings and print.

<allanj> alastair: safari does not have this functinality in print preview

<allanj> ... all browsers on Mac side don't scale

<allanj> ... to print

<allanj> Is Printing ready to go to wcag?

<allanj> +1

<JohnRochford> +1

<alastairc> +1

<shawn> +1

<Glenda> +1

<Alan_Smith> +1

*RESOLUTION: Printing Customized Text is ready for WCAG WG*

<ScottM> we need mare whereases

<shawn>
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Tracking_Success_Criteria_Progress#Success_Criteria_Progress_Table

<alastairc> scribe: alastairc

<Alan_Smith> I need to drop the call. Thanks. Great work.

Shawn: are we getting to the other SCs? Font family etc.

<allanj> font family, spacing, text style

Wayne: anticipate it would get to WCAG, and they would say it isn't
something an author can do. Also, need to be able to demo on two platforms.
... Could do as the printing one, and have examples from HTML.

Would work like the text colour one, you do it in the browser and you've
got it.

Allanj: are those three ok?

Shawn: font family and spacing are the most important ones.
... what about the other pre-TPAC ones?
Size of all Content

<allanj>
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Size_of_all_elements

<allanj> Alastair: reviews

<Wayne> Alastair: Describes the SC.

AllanJ: Any objections?

<Wayne> John: Why are we going from 200 to 400?

<Wayne> Alastair: 400% is achievable. Zooming gets you the mobile site.
Greater print requires reflow.

<JohnRochford> John: Suggestion that we add a reference to our reflow SC
for above 400.

<Wayne> John: Should we add for large resize use reflow.

<Wayne> Marla: Account for window size.

Alastair: It is the same as WCAG 2, same assumptions.

Any obections?

<ScottM> no

<allanj> +1

<ScottM> +1

<JohnRochford> +1

<laura> none from me

<laura> +1

<Wayne> +1

<Glenda> +1

*RESOLUTION: Resize content
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Size_of_all_elements
<https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Size_of_all_elements> is
ready to go to WCAG*
Font Family

<allanj> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Font

<allanj> shawn: fonts available on the system

<allanj> The user can change the font family to any family generally
available to the user agent.

Wayne: User agent, often has more options than OS.
... same for the others.

Shawn: Can take out the "general"

AllanJ: can do that to the others?

<shawn> Alastair: Yes, I'm fine with doing that to the others

<allanj> alastair: ok with making the changes to the others same as font
family

<allanj> scribe: allanj

*RESOLUTION: Spacing
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Spacing
<https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Spacing> is ready to go
to WCAG*

<Glenda> I agree with Wayne and Shawn…to make a resolution for things we
are passing to Silver.

<JohnRochford> FYI: I added a link, to our Reflow SC, to the new text in
the description section of our Size of all elements SC.

wayne: because of the limitation of 2.1, recognize there are essential
needs that are not met by these SC. We are not submitting xxx at this time,
but will be submitting to Silver

wd: limited by what authors can do.
... lvtf write a report to wcag about things not covered by 2.1 SC

shawn: if we can say "lv needs can be met by wcag 2.1 sc from lvtf and
UAAG20" that would be awesome

*RESOLUTION: Font https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Font
<https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Font> is ready for WCAG*
seeing all interface elements

https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Seeing_All_Interface_Elements

<shawn> +1 for simplifying this and taking our the cursor issue (since it's
covered elsewhere)

<ScottM> +1

<shawn> +1 for simplifying this and taking out the cursor issue (since it's
covered elsewhere) -- in the text and the examples

<JohnRochford> Metadata SC: Informational content that is only shown by
hovering a mouse over an element is not used as the only means of conveying
information and does not obscure other content.

group editing.

Any objections?

<ScottM> +1

+1

<Glenda> +1

<laura> +1

<JohnRochford> +1

*RESOLUTION: Seeing all Interface elements
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Seeing_All_Interface_Element
<https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Seeing_All_Interface_Element>
is ready for WCAG*
Summary of Action Items Summary of Resolutions

   1. Text Colors
   https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Text_Colors ready for
   WCAG 2.1 <https://www.w3.org/2016/12/01-lvtf-minutes.html#resolution01>
   2. Metadata on Hover is ready for WCAG.
   <https://www.w3.org/2016/12/01-lvtf-minutes.html#resolution02>
   3. Printing Customized Text is ready for WCAG WG
   <https://www.w3.org/2016/12/01-lvtf-minutes.html#resolution03>
   4. Resize content
   https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Size_of_all_elements is
   ready to go to WCAG
   <https://www.w3.org/2016/12/01-lvtf-minutes.html#resolution04>
   5. Spacing https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Spacing is
   ready to go to WCAG
   <https://www.w3.org/2016/12/01-lvtf-minutes.html#resolution05>
   6. Font https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Font is ready
   for WCAG <https://www.w3.org/2016/12/01-lvtf-minutes.html#resolution06>
   7. Seeing all Interface elements
   https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Seeing_All_Interface_Element
   is ready for WCAG
   <https://www.w3.org/2016/12/01-lvtf-minutes.html#resolution07>

[End of minutes]

-- 
Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
Received on Thursday, 1 December 2016 18:08:09 UTC