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Re: Request for Help: US Government Linked Data

From: Gannon Dick <gannon_dick@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 08:35:02 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1369236902.73141.YahooMailNeo@web122906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
To: Jürgen Jakobitsch <j.jakobitsch@semantic-web.at>
Cc: Eric Mill <konklone@gmail.com>, Luca Matteis <lmatteis@gmail.com>, David Wood <david@3roundstones.com>, community <public-lod@w3.org>, eGov W3C <public-egov-ig@w3.org>
Hi Jürgen,

Thanks for the Cartoon.
A mixture of education/outreach has always served the web well.
The US Government is a special case because they issue a lot of integrated facts into the Public Domain.  Civil Servants (in theory) never have to debate the quality of work product.  This system produces frictions not unique to US Territory.  The link ( http://www.rustprivacy.org/2013/egov/roadmap/NoMoneyInGovernment.pdf) makes the general case:  You want both tolerance and precision, but both are not necessary.  It is not reasonable to land on Mars directly (without a few orbits) or even drive from Berlin to Bonn and back in *exactly* the same time.  You have to let the average happen.  Both Lord Kelvin (Absolute Zero) and Professor Einstein (Mass and Energy) played tricks at the far ends of the range to make a return trip possible.  To put it another way, you can level the playing field (and you should), but if you build a high brick wall in front of the Goal, then the game you are playing is not Football (Soccer or American Football). 
 Actually, it is not a fun game at all.

StratML can specify successive approximations (steps) to the goal, SKOS and RDF determine a median which is presumed close to the mean (average).  Watches were invented to agree with each other, not the sun, which is never on time for lunch.  The average is what it is.  Policy goals are not stupid and not fish.

--Gannon

________________________________
 From: Jürgen Jakobitsch <j.jakobitsch@semantic-web.at>
To: Gannon Dick <gannon_dick@yahoo.com> 
Cc: Eric Mill <konklone@gmail.com>; Luca Matteis <lmatteis@gmail.com>; David Wood <david@3roundstones.com>; community <public-lod@w3.org>; eGov W3C <public-egov-ig@w3.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: Request for Help: US Government Linked Data
 

it's a fish of course, not a frog [1]... (excuse climb typo)

wkr j

[1] http://smrt.ccel.ca/files/2012/08/Albert-Einstein-everyone-is-a-genius-but-if-you-judge-a-fish-by-its-ability-to-climb-a-tree.jpeg



----- Original Message -----
From: "Jürgen Jakobitsch" <j.jakobitsch@semantic-web.at>
To: "Gannon Dick" <gannon_dick@yahoo.com>
Cc: "Eric Mill" <konklone@gmail.com>, "Luca Matteis" <lmatteis@gmail.com>, "David Wood" <david@3roundstones.com>, "community" <public-lod@w3.org>, "eGov W3C" <public-egov-ig@w3.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 1:13:10 AM
Subject: Re: Request for Help: US Government Linked Data

hi,

for clarification, my comment was about this line [1]. 
it was meant to give you an idea that comparison made cannot be left just so
as it is full of suggestions and
 doesn't seem to be based on anything other
than emotion (as are most "is better than" debates).
the given judgement [1] suggests that it is the best solution for what 
it was actually made for (=void) [3] by first comparing it with something the main goal of which 
is to create knowledge representations in the form of a controlled vocabulary (thesaurus)
and secondly comparing it with a whole datamodel the inherence of it's ability to create
a schema suitable to handle the given use case of which i am convinced.

you know... if you judge a frog by it's ability to clime a tree...

wkr jürgen


[1] Sorry to say, for reasons given, that StratML seems the better choice
for Strategic Policy Representation (rather than SKOS and RDF).
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_XML_markup_languages
[3] from [2]: StratML is "an
 XML vocabulary and schema for strategic and performance plans and reports"

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gannon Dick" <gannon_dick@yahoo.com>
To: "Eric Mill" <konklone@gmail.com>, "Luca Matteis" <lmatteis@gmail.com>
Cc: "j jakobitsch" <j.jakobitsch@semantic-web.at>, "David Wood" <david@3roundstones.com>, "<public-lod@w3.org> community" <public-lod@w3.org>, "eGov W3C" <public-egov-ig@w3.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 10:02:09 PM
Subject: Re: Request for Help: US Government Linked Data

FWIW, having been labelled "confused" multiple times through the magic of email forwarding ... :-) 



________________________________
From: Eric Mill <konklone@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Request for Help: US Government Linked Data



My (completely personal, unofficial) request of the LD community, as Project Open Data and its discussion threads grow, is to avoid a general "summoning of the troops" to this stuff. 
=======
Yes, avoid "circle the wagons" too.  Data Models are important, and ... (cont.)

=======

One of the things that
 was made obvious to me by that thread is how painfully easy it is for people who very much have the same awesome shared end goals in mind - more useful government data - to talk past each other. That only gets easier when comments get more emotional, and gauging one's success during a debate becomes a matter of quantity rather than quality.

As I said, I really valued the thread we had - and most especially, I love what POD is doing, and I think the US and Github are going to have a profound impact on how the world views policy making in the long run. The POD project is going to be looked at by governments around the world, and they're going to evaluate POD based on the quality of those discussions (not the outcomes).
=======
... outcomes are a dodgy gauge of Policy with Open Data for well defined reasons - and you do not conflate "well defined" with "benefits the Smartest Guys in the Room most, obviously".  In the Commercial world, the
 square root of a dollar (or Euro) is 10 dimes, the square root of a dime is a penny and the square root of 2 dollars is $1.41.  Facts just don't understand simple Economics, or something like that.  That said, Open Data does use an odd Coordinate System.  Map Makers will tell you that these maps have little navigation value.  They also expect you to know that the voids cannot be flown over or tunnelled under without a theory to support such an operation.  "Because I think it would be nice if I could" isn't a theory.  There are quite a few other non-theories around too. The regions beyond the length of the Equator+Voids are real, not Outliers.  The shortest distance between two points is the long route around, sometimes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MercTranSph_enhanced.png (no voids - Spherical)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/MercTranEll.png (Elliptical with voids at the boundaries)

1) The voids never go away.  
2) Governments and the LD Community cannot treat Outliers as "useless losers who don't get LD".

=======

It's going to be great to having more of those discussions with everyone here, both about LD (and things other than LD!). There's a ton of unblazed trails here, and I'm just so excited to see where they go.

=======
Me too.
=======


-- Eric



On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 4:31 PM, Luca Matteis <lmatteis@gmail.com> wrote:

The pull request was merged. Great success! 
>
>
>Let's continue this effort by submitting more LOD
 pull-requests.
>
>
>
>On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 7:15 PM, Jürgen Jakobitsch SWC <j.jakobitsch@semantic-web.at> wrote:
>
>On Sun, 2013-05-19 at 08:19 -0700, Gannon Dick wrote:
>>> Dave,
>>>
>>>
>>> IMHO, the W3C Cookbook methods do not go far enough to define the
>>> short-term strategy game of which Americans are so fond.  The Federal
>>> Government must plan Social Policy from ante Meridian (AM) to post
>>> Meridian (PM).  Playing statistical games with higher frequencies or
>>> modified time spans is fun, but it is not Science (a Free Energy
>>> Calculation).
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.rustprivacy.org/2013/egov/roadmap/NoMoneyInGovernment.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry to say, for reasons given, that StratML seems the better choice
>>> for Strategic Policy Representation (rather than SKOS and RDF).
>>
>>sorry, no offence but above are two lines of total confusion...
>>
>>wkr j
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --Gannon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>
>>> From: David Wood <david@3roundstones.com>
>>> To: "<public-lod@w3.org> community" <public-lod@w3.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 8:59 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Request for Help: US Government Linked Data
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I take it back: Don't just comment.
>>>
>>> We need to introduce pull requests into the Project Open Data
>>> documents that add Linked Data terms, examples and guidelines to the
>>> existing material.
>>>
>>> There are a few scattered RDFa references in relation to schema.org,
>>> but most of the Linked Data material has been removed from the
>>> documents.  We need to get this back in existing Linked Data efforts
>>> within the US Government might very well be hurt.
>>>
>>> Please help.  Thanks.
>>>
>>>
 Regards,
>>> Dave
>>> --
>>> http://about.me/david_wood
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 18, 2013, at 09:16, David Wood <david@3roundstones.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Hi all,
>>> >
>>> > Parts of the US Government have been discussing the role of Linked
>>> Data in government agencies and whether Linked Data is what the Obama
>>> Administration meant when they mandated "machine readable" data.
>>> Unsurprisingly, some people like to do things the old ways, with a
>>> three-tier architecture and without fostering reuse of the data.
>>> >
>>> > Please respond to the GitHub thread if you would like to
 support
>>> Linked Data:
>>> >
>>> https://github.com/project-open-data/project-open-data.github.io/pull/21
>>> >
>>> > Regards,
>>> > Dave
>>> > --
>>> > http://about.me/david_wood
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>--
>>| Jürgen Jakobitsch,
>>| Software Developer
>>| Semantic Web Company GmbH
>>| Mariahilfer Straße 70 / Neubaugasse 1, Top 8
>>| A - 1070 Wien, Austria
>>| Mob +43 676 62 12 710 | Fax +43.1.402 12 35 - 22
>>
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>>| foaf      : http://company.semantic-web.at/person/juergen_jakobitsch
>>PERSONAL INFORMATION
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>>| foaf      : http://www.turnguard.com/turnguard
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>>| skype     : jakobitsch-punkt
>>| xmlns:tg  = "http://www.turnguard.com/turnguard#"
>>
>>
>>
>


-- 

@konklone | konklone.com | sunlightfoundation.com | awesomefoundation.org

-- 
| Jürgen Jakobitsch, 
| Software Developer
| Semantic Web Company GmbH
| Mariahilfer Straße 70 / Neubaugasse 1, Top 8
| A - 1070 Wien, Austria
| Mob +43 676 62 12 710 | Fax +43.1.402 12 35 - 22

COMPANY INFORMATION
| web       : http://www.semantic-web.at/
| foaf      : http://company.semantic-web.at/person/juergen_jakobitsch
PERSONAL INFORMATION
| web       : http://www.turnguard.com
| foaf      : http://www.turnguard.com/turnguard
| g+        : https://plus.google.com/111233759991616358206/posts
| skype     : jakobitsch-punkt
| xmlns:tg  = "http://www.turnguard.com/turnguard#"


-- 
| Jürgen Jakobitsch, 
| Software Developer
| Semantic Web Company GmbH
| Mariahilfer Straße 70 / Neubaugasse 1, Top 8
| A - 1070 Wien, Austria
| Mob +43 676 62 12 710 | Fax +43.1.402 12 35 - 22

COMPANY INFORMATION
| web       : http://www.semantic-web.at/
| foaf      : http://company.semantic-web.at/person/juergen_jakobitsch
PERSONAL
 INFORMATION
| web       : http://www.turnguard.com
| foaf      : http://www.turnguard.com/turnguard
| g+        : https://plus.google.com/111233759991616358206/posts
| skype     : jakobitsch-punkt
| xmlns:tg  = "http://www.turnguard.com/turnguard#"
Received on Wednesday, 22 May 2013 15:35:37 UTC

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