Re: Schema.org in RDF ...

On 6/12/11 8:10 PM, Pat Hayes wrote:
> Kingsley, Im not exactly sure what you are saying in all this, but... (read on)
>
> On Jun 12, 2011, at 9:49 AM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
>
>> On 6/12/11 3:42 PM, Richard Cyganiak wrote:
>>> On 12 Jun 2011, at 11:12, Alan Ruttenberg wrote:
>>>> I've yet to encounter a person who didn't understand the difference between a book about Obama and Obama.
>>> This has nothing to do with books about Obama.
>>>
>>> It's about the difference between an URI-named resource which can return, say, a JSON representation of Obama; and a URI-named resource that *is* Obama. Explaining why using the same URI for both of those supposedly breaks the Web isn't *quite* that easy.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Richard
>>>
>> Richard,
>>
>> It isn't about braking the Web or its AWWW, really. It's about how its always been when dealing with data via programs. An Object has:
>>
>> 1. Name
>> 2. Representation Address
>> 3. Actual Representation.
> It also has 4. Its actual self, ie the object. In the example above, Obama, the living breathing President of the USA. Not a representation or an address of any kind, not accessible by HTML in any way, not a piece of information. Still, can be referred to by a name, and described by a representation. And this is what the whole discussion is about.

Yes it does. I was commenting on the Web Resource specifically, and it 
use as a mechanism for agency via observation subject representation.

As per your comment about self, the whole picture goes something like this:

1. Actual Observation Subject
2. Subject Identifier operating as a Name
3. Medium specific Representation Location (Address)
4. Actual Medium specific Representation.

2-4 collectively deliver observation subject agency in a given context 
e.g., WWW .

> In the example above, Obama, the living breathing President of the 
> USA. Not a representation or an address of any kind, not accessible by 
> HTML in any way, not a piece of information. Still, can be referred to 
> by a name, and described by a representation. And this is what the 
> whole discussion is about.
Typo redo, I am in constant motion right now, physical location wise 
right now. This is an important conversation, so I don't want typo 
confusion :-)

1. Obama - the human observation subject that doesn't exist on the Web 
in physical form
2. http://dbpedia.org/resource/Barack_Obama -- his Name
3. http://dbpedia.org/page/Barack_Obama -- the Address of an HTML based 
resource that describes him; you can also GET (access) this description 
in alternative formats via the following Addresses :
     -- http://dbpedia.org/data/Barack_Obama.json
     -- http://dbpedia.org/data/Barack_Obama.ntriples
     -- etc..

4. Byte stream I receive when I de-reference the Name (via indirection): 
http://dbpedia.org/resource/Obama or access directly via Address -- 
actual representation .

It isn't as complex as we are making it seem, really.

Non Web Programmers have worked with de-reference (indirection) and 
address-of operations via operators for a long time en route to crafting 
very sophisticated Linked Data Structures. Courtesy, of TimBL's Linked 
Data meme, we can use Links to craft graphs that serve observation 
subject representations. Basically,  these graphs are Linked Data 
Structures but via hyperlinks unleashed at InterWeb scales. Using 
de-referencable URIs (in the generic sense) with HTTP scheme URIs as a 
cheap albeit unintuitive option, remains the point of confusion re. 
clearer narrative.

As you know, Object Identity is an old matter.
Object Identity distinct from Object Representation, ditto.
Representation exists somewhere.
Identifiers always have Referents.
Identifiers can Name Referents e.g. real-world entities.
Identifiers can also Name Locations i.e., specific Name for a specific 
type of Thing with specific characteristics e.g. Address (the place 
where you access stuff from)
URI abstraction encompasses generic Naming (de-reference / indirection) 
and Access (Address-of).

When we oscillate from URI to URL re., conversation marquee we 
repeatedly obscure the deeper issue of the URI abstraction itself (as 
expressed in the last item above). A URI is Cool not because "it doesn't 
change" but because it delivers a vehicle for de-reference (indirection) 
and address-of, and in so doing you end up with an abstraction where an 
Object Name is truly distinct from its Representation albeit explicitly 
connected, and as a result the Name becomes immortal (it doesn't change) 
while the understanding of the Name's Referent evolves ad infinitum.

When all is said and done we have our Names and the Deeds associated 
with those Names. Representations may vary, they just come and go :-)

Via Linked Data graphs (borne or carried via Resources) the WWW is a 
viable medium for effecting what I describe above.


Kingsley


> Pat
>
>> I can even articulate this using the much overloaded "Resource" term by saying: courtesy of Linked Data tweak (or evolution) Web Resources now has a:
>>
>> 1. Name
>> 2. Representation Address
>> 3. Actual Representation.
>>
>> Prior to the use of Links for structured data representation a Resource had a:
>>
>> 1. Representation Address
>> 2. Actual Representation.
>>
>>
>> It really is as simple as outlined above.
>>
>> HTTP explicitly includes the ability to negotiate Actual Representation via mime types.
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Kingsley Idehen	
>> President&   CEO
>> OpenLink Software
>> Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
>> Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
>> Twitter/Identi.ca: kidehen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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-- 

Regards,

Kingsley Idehen	
President&  CEO
OpenLink Software
Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca: kidehen

Received on Sunday, 12 June 2011 20:08:44 UTC