Re: ANN: Sudoc bibliographic ans authority data

Hi,


>>> Which side effects are probable ?
>>
>>
>> Giovanni has made the same comment on data.europeana.eu a couple of
>> weeks ago. The data we serve there is different from the RDFa mark-up
>> on our web portal.
>> We had some reasons to do this, including, well, that the RDFa data is
>> mixing the info and non-info resources for making easier data
>> consumption (not mandatorily by search engines, btw), and working with
>> URIs that pre-date our linked data service.
>>
>> The RDFa and the RDF obtained with LD-style conneg is also not about
>> the same URIs, which should avoid any confusion.
>
>
> I can't see any "confusion" if you publish complementary data about the same resource URI (in our case) through complementary technologies.
> I can imagine a burden for crawlers and other data consumers, but where is the confusion ?


Yeah, perhaps "confusion" is not the best word. Still, I think getting different flavors of data in the path of implementers could be awkward, if no documentation is given, or if it does not correspond to a well-identified practice. If we manage to get the Sindice guys slightly puzzled by our stuff, I can imagine what others may feel...

  
>> But I can understand that if Sindice tries to fetch both data sources,
>> it may assume the data to be the same. And this assumption could bring
>> a number of undesirable side effects if Sindice merges all what it
>> gets...
>
> In our case, i don't see the *risk* of merging, but my point of view is maybe too narrow.
>
>>
>> That being said, perhaps the solution lies in Sindice being less
>> greedy ;-) and just work with the first data source it finds, for a
>> given URI.
>
>
> Sindice is actually very temperate : it take only our RDF/XML data :)


Excellent!

Cheers,

Antoine



>> I do like the idea of having several (simple) channels for data
>> publication over the web, which serve different goals.
>> Maybe we need to better articulate the practices and expectations,
>> though...
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Antoine
>>
>>
>>>    Hi Giovanni,
>>>
>>> Le 09/07/2011 23:10, Giovanni Tummarello a écrit :
>>>> Hi Nicolas,
>>>>
>>>> Its getting in Sindice indeed -
>>>
>>> Yes, I have noticed :)
>>>
>>>> quite politely e.g. 1 every 5 secs-
>>>> we'll monitor speed and completeness. iff you think its ok for us
>>>> to
>>>> crawl faster please say so via robot.txt directive or just say so
>>> May I suggest that you crawl twice faster ?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://sindice.com/search?q=book&nq=&fq=domain%3Awww.sudoc.fr&sortbydate=1&interface=advanced
>>>>
>>>> at the same time i notice something funny in the markup e.g. if you
>>>> go
>>>> with a browser you get redirected to something that has almost no
>>>> data
>>>>
>>>> for example the sitemap contains
>>>>
>>>> http://www.sudoc.fr/000000043
>>>>
>>>> if you go there you get redirected to
>>>>
>>>> http://www.sudoc.abes.fr/DB=2.1/SRCH?IKT=12&TRM=000000043
>>>>
>>>> which if you put in the inspector
>>>>
>>>> http://inspector.sindice.com/inspect?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sudoc.abes.fr%2FDB%3D2.1%2FSRCH%3FIKT%3D12%26TRM%3D000000043#TRIPLES
>>>>
>>>> you get very little data
>>>>
>>>> however of course if i use the inspector on
>>>> http://www.sudoc.fr/000000043 i get data
>>>>
>>>> http://inspector.sindice.com/inspect?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sudoc.fr%2F000000043&content=&contentType=auto#TRIPLES
>>>>
>>>> which however is mostly schema.org data!
>>>>
>>>> but in sindice i have lots of RDF data with all sort of other
>>>> ontologies
>>>>
>>>> http://sindice.com/search/page?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sudoc.fr%2F000385123
>>>>
>>>> is there any way you could try to normalize all into a single
>>>> markup
>>>> type? i think it would be easier to debug and ultimately better for
>>>> all..
>>>
>>> I will try to explain our intention, our constraints and the
>>> mechanism we've implemented.
>>>
>>> - Intention -
>>>
>>> We want to meet several needs :
>>> . providing RDF/XML to semantic-oriented clients like Sindice
>>> . providing HTML + schema.org microdata to traditional search
>>> engines like Google
>>> . providing an HTML UI to users
>>>
>>>
>>> - Constraints -
>>>
>>> . For some reasons, we can't add microdata to our traditional Sudoc
>>> UI. Hence the necessity of special HTML+microdata pages for search
>>> engines. :(
>>> . HTML+microdata pages and RDF pages can't support the same
>>> vocabularies, schema.org /oblige/.
>>>
>>>
>>> - Mechanisms -
>>>
>>> Let's start from : http://www.sudoc.fr/132133520
>>>
>>> . If RDF/XML is called by the request, we provide RDF/XML content
>>> (as if you had requested http://www.sudoc.fr/132133520.rdf)
>>> It is what Sindice Crawler is doing and getting : the 55,764
>>> documents that are found in your index are composed of triples
>>> extracted from this RDF/XML page. It is what we expected. Fine :)
>>>
>>> . If our Apache server considers a user agent to be a robot and if
>>> this agent does not ask for RDF/XML, we provide special HTML content
>>> (as if you had requested http://www.sudoc.fr/132133520.html)
>>> It seems to work as Google cache contains this kind of HTML +
>>> schema.org microdata pages :
>>> http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.sudoc.fr/000000043
>>>
>>> . In other cases, we redirect to our traditional and non semantic UI
>>> : http://www.sudoc.abes.fr/DB=2.1/SRCH?IKT=12&TRM=000000043
>>> . NB : we have planned to add this<link>  in this HTML page :<link
>>> rel="alternate" type="application/rdf+xml"
>>> href="http://www.sudoc.fr/000000043.rdf"/>  and<link rel="canonical"
>>> href="http://www.sudoc.fr/000000043"/>  to alleviate the URL
>>> confusion.
>>>
>>>
>>> - - - - -
>>>
>>> . It is not simple, but it seems to work, ie Google, Sindice and
>>> users seem to get what they should.
>>> . Is there a better way to obtain the same results ?
>>> . Which side effects are probable ?
>>>
>>> Thanks for your help and your attention !
>>>
>>> Yann
>>>
>>>>
>>>> looking forward to support
>>>> Giovanni
>>>> Gio
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Kingsley
>>>> Idehen<kidehen@openlinksw.com>  wrote:
>>>>> On 7/8/11 8:31 AM, Yann NICOLAS wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 08/07/2011 01:42, Kingsley Idehen a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>> On 7/7/11 10:17 PM, Yann NICOLAS wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Bonjour,
>>>>>
>>>>> Sudoc [1], the French academic union catalogue maintained by ABES
>>>>> [2], has
>>>>> just been released as linked open data.
>>>>>
>>>>> 10 million bibliographic records are now available as RDF/XML.
>>>>>
>>>>> Examples for the Sudoc record whose internal id is 132133520 :
>>>>> . Resource URI :http://www.sudoc.fr/132133520/id
>>>>> . Generic document :http://www.sudoc.fr/132133520 (content
>>>>> negotiation is
>>>>> supported)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Great job!
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there an RDF dump anywhere?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry, we don't provide any dump, as the 10 000 000 files are
>>>>> generated on
>>>>> the fly from Oracle (stored as XML type+ some more tables).
>>>>> We provide a complete sitemap at
>>>>> http://www.sudoc.fr/noticesbiblio/sitemap.txt , and we hope that
>>>>> Sindice
>>>>> will crawl the whole stuff.
>>>>> Would it help ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Any advice welcome,
>>>>>
>>>>> Yann
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> --
>>>>> Yann NICOLAS
>>>>> Etudes&  Projets
>>>>> ABES
>>>>>
>>>>> Okay, no problem with sitemaps as dump alternatives re. getting
>>>>> data
>>>>> imported into Linked Data hubs such our LOD cloud cache and
>>>>> Sindice etc..
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Kingsley Idehen
>>>>> President&  CEO
>>>>> OpenLink Software
>>>>> Web:http://www.openlinksw.com
>>>>> Weblog:http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
>>>>> Twitter/Identi.ca: kidehen
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> Yann NICOLAS
>>> Etudes&  Projets
>>> ABES
>>>
>

Received on Sunday, 10 July 2011 12:34:10 UTC