- From: Antoine Isaac <aisaac@few.vu.nl>
- Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 14:34:43 +0200
- To: Yann Nicolas <nicolas@abes.fr>
- CC: public-lod@w3.org
Hi, >>> Which side effects are probable ? >> >> >> Giovanni has made the same comment on data.europeana.eu a couple of >> weeks ago. The data we serve there is different from the RDFa mark-up >> on our web portal. >> We had some reasons to do this, including, well, that the RDFa data is >> mixing the info and non-info resources for making easier data >> consumption (not mandatorily by search engines, btw), and working with >> URIs that pre-date our linked data service. >> >> The RDFa and the RDF obtained with LD-style conneg is also not about >> the same URIs, which should avoid any confusion. > > > I can't see any "confusion" if you publish complementary data about the same resource URI (in our case) through complementary technologies. > I can imagine a burden for crawlers and other data consumers, but where is the confusion ? Yeah, perhaps "confusion" is not the best word. Still, I think getting different flavors of data in the path of implementers could be awkward, if no documentation is given, or if it does not correspond to a well-identified practice. If we manage to get the Sindice guys slightly puzzled by our stuff, I can imagine what others may feel... >> But I can understand that if Sindice tries to fetch both data sources, >> it may assume the data to be the same. And this assumption could bring >> a number of undesirable side effects if Sindice merges all what it >> gets... > > In our case, i don't see the *risk* of merging, but my point of view is maybe too narrow. > >> >> That being said, perhaps the solution lies in Sindice being less >> greedy ;-) and just work with the first data source it finds, for a >> given URI. > > > Sindice is actually very temperate : it take only our RDF/XML data :) Excellent! Cheers, Antoine >> I do like the idea of having several (simple) channels for data >> publication over the web, which serve different goals. >> Maybe we need to better articulate the practices and expectations, >> though... >> >> Cheers, >> >> Antoine >> >> >>> Hi Giovanni, >>> >>> Le 09/07/2011 23:10, Giovanni Tummarello a écrit : >>>> Hi Nicolas, >>>> >>>> Its getting in Sindice indeed - >>> >>> Yes, I have noticed :) >>> >>>> quite politely e.g. 1 every 5 secs- >>>> we'll monitor speed and completeness. iff you think its ok for us >>>> to >>>> crawl faster please say so via robot.txt directive or just say so >>> May I suggest that you crawl twice faster ? >>> >>>> >>>> http://sindice.com/search?q=book&nq=&fq=domain%3Awww.sudoc.fr&sortbydate=1&interface=advanced >>>> >>>> at the same time i notice something funny in the markup e.g. if you >>>> go >>>> with a browser you get redirected to something that has almost no >>>> data >>>> >>>> for example the sitemap contains >>>> >>>> http://www.sudoc.fr/000000043 >>>> >>>> if you go there you get redirected to >>>> >>>> http://www.sudoc.abes.fr/DB=2.1/SRCH?IKT=12&TRM=000000043 >>>> >>>> which if you put in the inspector >>>> >>>> http://inspector.sindice.com/inspect?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sudoc.abes.fr%2FDB%3D2.1%2FSRCH%3FIKT%3D12%26TRM%3D000000043#TRIPLES >>>> >>>> you get very little data >>>> >>>> however of course if i use the inspector on >>>> http://www.sudoc.fr/000000043 i get data >>>> >>>> http://inspector.sindice.com/inspect?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sudoc.fr%2F000000043&content=&contentType=auto#TRIPLES >>>> >>>> which however is mostly schema.org data! >>>> >>>> but in sindice i have lots of RDF data with all sort of other >>>> ontologies >>>> >>>> http://sindice.com/search/page?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sudoc.fr%2F000385123 >>>> >>>> is there any way you could try to normalize all into a single >>>> markup >>>> type? i think it would be easier to debug and ultimately better for >>>> all.. >>> >>> I will try to explain our intention, our constraints and the >>> mechanism we've implemented. >>> >>> - Intention - >>> >>> We want to meet several needs : >>> . providing RDF/XML to semantic-oriented clients like Sindice >>> . providing HTML + schema.org microdata to traditional search >>> engines like Google >>> . providing an HTML UI to users >>> >>> >>> - Constraints - >>> >>> . For some reasons, we can't add microdata to our traditional Sudoc >>> UI. Hence the necessity of special HTML+microdata pages for search >>> engines. :( >>> . HTML+microdata pages and RDF pages can't support the same >>> vocabularies, schema.org /oblige/. >>> >>> >>> - Mechanisms - >>> >>> Let's start from : http://www.sudoc.fr/132133520 >>> >>> . If RDF/XML is called by the request, we provide RDF/XML content >>> (as if you had requested http://www.sudoc.fr/132133520.rdf) >>> It is what Sindice Crawler is doing and getting : the 55,764 >>> documents that are found in your index are composed of triples >>> extracted from this RDF/XML page. It is what we expected. Fine :) >>> >>> . If our Apache server considers a user agent to be a robot and if >>> this agent does not ask for RDF/XML, we provide special HTML content >>> (as if you had requested http://www.sudoc.fr/132133520.html) >>> It seems to work as Google cache contains this kind of HTML + >>> schema.org microdata pages : >>> http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.sudoc.fr/000000043 >>> >>> . In other cases, we redirect to our traditional and non semantic UI >>> : http://www.sudoc.abes.fr/DB=2.1/SRCH?IKT=12&TRM=000000043 >>> . NB : we have planned to add this<link> in this HTML page :<link >>> rel="alternate" type="application/rdf+xml" >>> href="http://www.sudoc.fr/000000043.rdf"/> and<link rel="canonical" >>> href="http://www.sudoc.fr/000000043"/> to alleviate the URL >>> confusion. >>> >>> >>> - - - - - >>> >>> . It is not simple, but it seems to work, ie Google, Sindice and >>> users seem to get what they should. >>> . Is there a better way to obtain the same results ? >>> . Which side effects are probable ? >>> >>> Thanks for your help and your attention ! >>> >>> Yann >>> >>>> >>>> looking forward to support >>>> Giovanni >>>> Gio >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Kingsley >>>> Idehen<kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote: >>>>> On 7/8/11 8:31 AM, Yann NICOLAS wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Le 08/07/2011 01:42, Kingsley Idehen a écrit : >>>>> >>>>> On 7/7/11 10:17 PM, Yann NICOLAS wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Bonjour, >>>>> >>>>> Sudoc [1], the French academic union catalogue maintained by ABES >>>>> [2], has >>>>> just been released as linked open data. >>>>> >>>>> 10 million bibliographic records are now available as RDF/XML. >>>>> >>>>> Examples for the Sudoc record whose internal id is 132133520 : >>>>> . Resource URI :http://www.sudoc.fr/132133520/id >>>>> . Generic document :http://www.sudoc.fr/132133520 (content >>>>> negotiation is >>>>> supported) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Great job! >>>>> >>>>> Is there an RDF dump anywhere? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sorry, we don't provide any dump, as the 10 000 000 files are >>>>> generated on >>>>> the fly from Oracle (stored as XML type+ some more tables). >>>>> We provide a complete sitemap at >>>>> http://www.sudoc.fr/noticesbiblio/sitemap.txt , and we hope that >>>>> Sindice >>>>> will crawl the whole stuff. >>>>> Would it help ? >>>>> >>>>> Any advice welcome, >>>>> >>>>> Yann >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> -- >>>>> Yann NICOLAS >>>>> Etudes& Projets >>>>> ABES >>>>> >>>>> Okay, no problem with sitemaps as dump alternatives re. getting >>>>> data >>>>> imported into Linked Data hubs such our LOD cloud cache and >>>>> Sindice etc.. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> >>>>> Kingsley Idehen >>>>> President& CEO >>>>> OpenLink Software >>>>> Web:http://www.openlinksw.com >>>>> Weblog:http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen >>>>> Twitter/Identi.ca: kidehen >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> -- >>> Yann NICOLAS >>> Etudes& Projets >>> ABES >>> >
Received on Sunday, 10 July 2011 12:34:10 UTC