- From: Nathan <nathan@webr3.org>
- Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 21:18:58 +0100
- To: Antoine Zimmermann <antoine.zimmermann@deri.org>
- CC: Jeremy Carroll <jeremy@topquadrant.com>, Linked Data community <public-lod@w3.org>, Semantic Web <semantic-web@w3.org>
Antoine Zimmermann wrote:
> Jeremy, et al.,
>
>
> I think people are already showing the money but they do it 2 cents
> after 2 cents ;-) Here is my little 2 cent contribution.
>
> To start with, I am on the side of the people in favour of allowing
> literals in the subject position. I've read the discussion and pondered
> the arguments on each side carefully, but I'm still convinced that it
> would ultimately be the better option to allow them. I understand the
> concern of those who would have to rework their architectures. Yet I
> don't believe that the cost exceeds the benefits for those who are
> starting to implement and for future implementations and future
> developments of the standards.
> As Sandro said, RIF is using triples with literals as subjects, as
> Robert Fuller said (in the LOD list), reasoners are internally inferring
> triples with literals in subject position, and other use cases (more or
> less convincing) have been proposed here. Why can't those inferences and
> facts be exposed and published in an RDF document?
>
>
> Now I'd like to show some of the strange things that happen when you
> combine SPARQL with inference regimes, that are due to the inability to
> have literals (in the syntax) as subject.
>
>
> Assume that you have the following data, harvested from the Web:
>
> :www dc:creator "Tim Berners-Lee" .
> :www dc:creator "Tim Berners-Lee"^^xsd:string .
> :www dc:creator :timbl .
> :timbl owl:sameAs "Tim Berners-Lee" .
>
>
> Note that literals are commonly used with dc:creator so this example is
> fairly realistic.
>
> Now, let us consider the following query:
>
> SELECT ?x WHERE {
> ?x a rdfs:Resource .
> }
>
> under the RDFS-entailment regime, this would provide the following answer:
> ?x --> :timbl
>
> Now, the following query:
>
> SELECT ?y WHERE {
> ?y a rdfs:Literal .
> }
>
> would provide no answer (under RDFS-entailment) and:
>
> SELECT ?z WHERE {
> ?z a xsd:string .
> }
>
> would provide no answer (under RDFS-entailment).
>
> Now, imagine a SPARQL engine with an "RDFS+sameAs"-entailment regime.
> The three queries above would give the following results:
>
> ?x --> :timbl // first query
> ?y --> :timbl // second query (I can infer that :timbl is a rdfs:Literal)
> and the last would give nothing.
>
> Now consider the query:
>
> SELECT ?t WHERE {
> ?u a rdfs:Literal .
> ?u owl:sameAs ?t .
> }
>
> It would give:
>
> ?t --> "Tim Berners-Lee"
> ?t --> :timbl
>
> However, the query:
>
> SELECT ?u WHERE {
> ?u a rdfs:Literal .
> ?u owl:sameAs ?t .
> }
>
> would give ?u -> :timbl .
>
>
> This is very weird for me.
>
Something else that keeps coming up, a subset of owl always comes in to
conversations, obviously owl:sameAs - there was a proposal from one Jim
Hendler [1] at a RDF workshop thing to perhaps do something about moving
these up a level to RDFS.
[1] http://www.w3.org/2009/12/rdf-ws/papers/ws31
Didn't seem to get much feedback or thoughts (afaik), but given the
climate perhaps it's worth giving some strong consideration to as a
community.
(Or just doing because it's a bloody good idea & would remove OWL from
virtually every conversation we end up having).
ps: my only comment/addition to this was to add in Restriction's too
Best,
Nathan
forking again, sorry!
Received on Thursday, 1 July 2010 20:20:07 UTC