- From: Pierre-Antoine Champin <swlists-040405@champin.net>
- Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 09:39:41 +0100
- To: Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
- CC: Semantic Web <semantic-web@w3.org>, Linked Data community <public-lod@w3.org>
Melvin, (sorry to the others, I used the wrong address to post to the mailing lists, so my previous message didn't get through) you wrote: > You dont need smart servers, just socially aware cloud storage. Flat > files are fine, you can let Agents do all the middleware. ok, I should'nt have used the term 'server'; I was not considering cloud-storage (yet)... It does not really change my point, though: if you only trust a single agent ("dungeon master") to manage game-data and enforce game logic, you end up with a rather centralized system. On the other hand, distributing the game logic is harder: - how do different agents maintain consistency of the game? - how do you trust a newly discovered agent? - how do you know that several agents are not colluding to cheat? But obviously, I merely scratched the surface, while you seem to have clearer ideas on the subject... :) -- thanks for the links by the way. I'll keep an eye on that. pa On 12/15/2010 12:39 AM, Melvin Carvalho wrote: > On 14 December 2010 22:21, Pierre-Antoine Champin > <pierre-antoine.champin@liris.cnrs.fr> wrote: >> Hi, >> >> this is fun, but we have to ask ourselves: what is the added value of >> RDF/sem-web/linked-data here? >> What does http://drogon.me/ have that wouldn't be possible with HTML+PHP? > > To me the Web, particularly the Sem Web is a universal space whose key > advantage is interoperability. > > So, each world can interop with similar worlds. > > Also worlds can operate with other parts of the Semantic Web Space. I > use the acronym SEMANTIC to describe key areas: > > Social > Entertainment > Markets > Access > Nearby services > Trust > Information management > Currencies > > So a game can be social, have trading with virtual currencies and > markets, you can interact with a personal or public web of trust, with > existing information or things in the real world in your locality (eg > augmented reality), using web standards. > > Granted each area on the list is still in an embryonic phase. But > this is a level of interop simply not available in other systems. > > We've seen linking of basic social and trust in PHP+HTML (facebook) > and social and entertainment (zynga) get some traction. But when we > have interop across all areas we'll have a that much more powerful > system. > >> Don't get me wrong, I think those ideas is great, and kudos to you guys for >> turning them into code so quickly! >> >> My two cents on this question: >> >> 1/ linking to real world data is definitely an interesting track, because >> this leverages existing linked data for the purpose of the game > > Yes, agree, leverage interop. > >> >> 2/ another way to use linked data principles is that the game can be >> distributed, even more so than an HTML-based game. > > Exactly. > >> >> I imagine that every character, place, item... could have its own RDF >> description, linking to each other. A triple between two objects (X is >> located at Y, X owns Z...) is considered true only if both the subject and >> the object claim it. >> >> This implies that the RDF files are hosted by "smart" servers that will >> allow updates by anybody, but under certain conditions. > > You dont need smart servers, just socially aware cloud storage. Flat > files are fine, you can let Agents do all the middleware. > > http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/CloudStorage.html > >> >> For example, a place will acknowledge that it contains a person only if the >> person claims to be in that place, and only there. > > This is game logic. It need not reside on a server. > >> >> The protocol might be tricky to design for more complex things like >> transactions. I imagine that an item would change its owner only after >> checking that both the old and the new owner explictly agree on the >> transaction >> >> <#me> game:agreesOn [ >> a game:Transaction ; >> game:give some:sword ; >> game:receive some:money ; >> ] > > Im working on an economic aspect. This is an interesting proposal on > transactions and contracts: > > http://iang.org/papers/ricardian_contract.html > > I have reasonable confidence we can introduce a sophisticated economy > that can be leveraged by all sem web projects, probably before end of > next year. > >> >> Plus, the buyer would have to trust the sword not cheat on them and return >> to its previous owner without notice... >> >> Fights will probably be even trickier... But I think the idea is worth >> exploring... > > Many ways to model this, again agents can handle this. > > Traditional architecture is > > client<--> middleware<--> data store > > Web oriented architecture is more flexible and can have, in addition: > > client<--> data store > client<--> agent<--> data store > client<--> data store<--> agent > > With trust and PKI regulating actions. Of course we see why WebID is > important here too. > >> >> pa >> >> >> On 12/02/2010 01:20 AM, Melvin Carvalho wrote: >>> >>> On 2 December 2010 01:13, Toby Inkster<tai@g5n.co.uk> wrote: >>>> >>>> On Wed, 1 Dec 2010 23:06:42 +0100 >>>> Melvin Carvalho<melvincarvalho@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I think the next thing I need to model is 'items'. >>>>> >>>>> At present need to work out a way to say a location has an item. >>>> >>>> Perhaps model it the other direction? >>>> >>>> <item22> game:initial_position<node394> . >>> >>> I was thinking more along the lines of: >>> >>> Location x has >>> item 1 >>> item 2 >>> player 1 >>> player 2 >>> >>> With a trusted Agent(dungeon master) adding them to a copy of the game >>> world. >>> >>> The DM is allowed to sparql update the locations via insert and >>> delete, contains the game logic, and interacts with players. >>> >>> In this way you can have 1 or more DM's given access to administer the >>> worlds, the best DMs would become 'resident' in the game world. >>> >>> Agree, it's not the only way to model it, but I like the idea of a >>> file based solution mediated by agents. >>> >>> Make sense? >>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Toby A Inkster >>>> <mailto:mail@tobyinkster.co.uk> >>>> <http://tobyinkster.co.uk> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >
Received on Wednesday, 15 December 2010 08:42:20 UTC