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Re: looking for an event ontology/vocabulary

From: Alan Ruttenberg <alanruttenberg@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 13:16:16 -0400
Message-ID: <29af5e2d0907291016y812e615wff12582e7d9fd318@mail.gmail.com>
To: Yves Raimond <yves.raimond@gmail.com>
Cc: Pat Hayes <phayes@ihmc.us>, David Canos <davidcanos@gmail.com>, public-lod <public-lod@w3.org>
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 12:54 PM, Yves Raimond<yves.raimond@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello!
>> Indeed. However, it suffers from one glaring defect, which may simply be a
>> problem of documentation: i does not explain its terms. In particular, it
>> refers to a 'factor' of an event, without anywhere saying anything, either
>> in the axioms or in the documentation, to explain what this strange term is
>> supposed to mean. It is not normal English usage to refer to a 'factor' of
>> an event, so ordinary English usage is no guide. The documentation at
>> http://motools.sourceforge.net/event/event.html#term_Factor
>> says  an event:Factor is 'everything used as a factor in an event', which is
>> completely useless as it provides no explanatory information whatsoever. If
>> an explanation of event:Foodle was that it described all the foodles of an
>> event, that would be similarly useless as documentation. Can you say WHAT
>> YOU MEAN by a 'factor'? If that is too much to ask, can you give some
>> EXAMPLES both of factors and of non-factors of an event?
> Wow. No need to shout!!!!
> Anyway, yes, the documentation is not particularly good, for the only
> reason that most people got it from the examples (which is apparently
> wrong or not enough, then?)

How would you know if they didn't? Is there anything you could write
that a reasoner could use to detect that a mistake had been made?

>  and so we didn't got the incentive to
> write a better one. Among those examples, you have:
> * A score in a musical performance
> * A musical instrument in a musical performance
> * A piece of text in a reading
> * A microphone in a recording

A chair in the room? The door to leave? The program handed out to the
audience? The audience? The light bulb illuminating the room? The food
that audience ate while watching? The videotape that was being used to
record the performance? The city in which the performance took place?

> The disjoint statement between agent and factor defines factors as
> something that doesn't have an active role in the event. Sorry it
> isn't reflected in the html doc (yes, my small specgen script doesn't
> capture everything).

Does a piano being played take an active role? Does the amplifier that
amplifies the sounds and the speakers that are used take an active
part? Can only people take active parts? How can I determine the
difference between active and inactive?

> Also, we are perfectly open for improvements, so if you have any
> suggestions for improvement or better description of terms, feel free.
> There is even an open SVN (motools project on Sourceforge, in the
> event subdirectory), where you can directly commit stuff.

My suggestion would be to follow the pointers I gave and get some
ideas about how people who have thought more deeply about such issues
approach the problem.

> There are also a bit more details in my thesis.



> Best,
> y
>> It is not enough to
>> only give examples, as this does not help the reader understand the limits
>> of your conceptual idea. For example, can something be both and agent and a
>> factor in an event? (Can you say, briefly, why or why not?) And so on. I
>> know this is not easy, and it may be impossible to give a 'definition' of
>> the term, but surely you can give SOME guidance to the user, if you are
>> claiming that this is so simple and obvious to use in such a wide range of
>> applications.
>>> and has been used in quite a
>>> variety of context already, from music data to activities data. Also,
>>> it is really simple, so really easy to grasp and extend.
>> RIght now it is impossible to grasp, and I would have no confidence that any
>> two extensions would be consistent.
>> Pat
>>> If you want
>>> example of last.fm events described using this ontology, take a look
>>> at the recommended events in the http://dbtune.org/last-fm/ wrapper.
>>> Cheers,
>>> y
>>>> thanks in advance
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Received on Wednesday, 29 July 2009 17:17:16 UTC

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