- From: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
- Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 18:40:48 -0400
- To: Sherman Monroe <sdmonroe@gmail.com>
- CC: public-lod@w3.org
Sherman Monroe wrote: > Kingsley, > > Well said. After all, we preach interoperability and standards to an > industry driven by concept of isolate & conquer. In all seriousness, > if we are to have any real chance of overcoming the impetus of > proprietary interests, then we must first achieve some semblance of > solidarity within the ranks of our own community. Yet, some of the > initiatives and territorial projects that surface clearly duplicate > efforts and at times lack interoperability with similar efforts; in > the process, precious focus and energy is wasted. The notion of > "standing on the shoulders of your fellows" is frustratingly lacking > whereas it should be one of our guiding principles. It is in our > interests to coordinate similar efforts, and diligently seek points of > synergies were none are apparent. Competition within the community > should be shunned and hissed at, seriously. Failure to align our > efforts will weaken our collective effort, and cause us to bump > against the same walls we're trying to bring down. LOD is > fundamentally a revolution in thinking, from a value on competition > and silos to the recognition of a much greater value in co-opetition > and interoperbility; that revolution must catch fire within the minds > of each LODC member before it has a chance of spreading to the rest of > the industry. The question each of us should ask ourselves is, do I > really believe in what LOD is about? The rest of the industry must be > able to look to us as an example of LOD principles at work. > > -sherman Amen! Homogeneity of purpose must be matched with actions, we have to dog-food every aspect of Linked Data :-) BTW - Any comments re. the UI matters we are discussing? I ask because you've felt the pain our service alleviates, first hand, based your experience re. Cypher atop DBpedia. Kingsley > > > > On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 10:36 PM, Kingsley Idehen > <kidehen@openlinksw.com <mailto:kidehen@openlinksw.com>> wrote: > > > On 4/22/09 10:24 PM, "Mike Bergman" <mike@mkbergman.com > <mailto:mike@mkbergman.com>> wrote: > > > This has been a classic case of Cool Hand Luke and a failure to > > communicate. Indeed, it happens all of the time in this forum. > > > > David comes from a perspective of usability and user interfaces, > > granted with a JS bias. Most all of us have recognized his > > genius for quite some time, and he is a leading innovator in such > > data presentation. > > > > Kingsley has been a passionate advocate for data connectivity and > > overcoming all things "silo". Middleware is his game (and OL's). > > Data and manipulating data is his perspective, and we know the > > superior infrastructure that his personal and then corporate > > commitments to these issues have brought. > > > > Benjamin notes today the difference in perspective. Does it > > begin with the user experience, or does it begin with the data? > > > > The answer, of course, is Yes. > > > > David with JSON and MQL and other things FB might be criticized. > > As he knows, I have done so personally offline and directly. > > > > Kingsley might be criticized for facile hand-waving at UI and > > usability questions; he, too, knows I have made those points > > privately. > > > > I truly don't know what our "community" really is or, if indeed, > > we even have one. But I do know this: > > > > All of us work on these issues because we believe in them and > > have passion. So, I have a simple suggestion: > > > > Keep looking outward. We need to talk and speak to the > > "unaffiliated". In that regard, David has the upper hand because > > presentation and flash will always be easier to understand for > > the non-cognescenti. But, David, you know this too: your job is > > easier if the nature of the data and its structure drives your > > display. > > > > There are HUGE, HUGE advantages of data driving interfaces and > > usability that neither of you are discussing. Let's next turn > > our attention there and gain some major wins at no cost. > > > > Mike > > Mike, > > First part of this response is to the LOD community in general: > > There is a fundamental point that permeates all my communications > about UI > and Data Access, and the more recent realm of Linked Data. It > simply comes > down to this: > > Data Presentation, Data Representation, Data Access, and Data > Storage are > all distinct items. Each of these realms is a domain of expertise > in its own > right. > > What Linked Data really and truly addresses is the ability to abstract > these distinct realms via HTTP based URIs that deliver the "*" > (reference/name) and "&" (address/location) of the 'C' programming > language > (simple anecdote) in a manner that truly transcends platforms due > to the > Web's ubiquity. > > I've already completed one iteration of the standards compliant > data access > and application binding via ODBC, JDBC, OLE-DB, and ADO.NET > <http://ADO.NET> etc.. but these > approaches all suffered from the pain of data access specific > protocols and > representations (XDR hell) albeit encapsulated in the Driver > implementation > work. Even worse, ODBC/JDBC/OLE-DB/ADO.NET <http://ADO.NET> > compliant applications all > suffered from presentation layer specificity (each App has their > own prior > to the emergence of HTML and XML+XSLT+CSS), so you had to buy a Report > Writer package (or similar desktop productivity tool) to get decent > presentation from your DBMS independent data access driver etc.. > > The point I am trying to make above is this: ODBC Drivers > development and > ODBC compliant application development were/are distinct > activities with > distinct specializations. And although these platform specific and > DBMS > model specific APIs have issues (as outlined above), the do unveil > a very > important virtue that the Linked Data community can only benefit > from i.e., > know your area of expertise, and maximize it by channeling your > effort to > the relevant side of a critical standard. > > Taking OpenLink as an example, we can truly do many things, but our > strategic focus is data access middleware and data management. > That's what > the company has been equipped to do very well since inception. > What we > aren't really equipped to do, but have been forced into, as part of an > effort to contribute to Linked Data Web bootstrap, is full blown UI > development. ODE, iSPARQL, OAT, and the rudimentary UI around the > very > powerful ODS platform are current examples. > > What I would like to see more of in this community, is the > coalescing of > talent around areas of core competence. This is how we will truly > produce > coherent game changing output. > > We have a standard, its called: Linked Data, much simpler than > ODBC, JDBC, > etc.. And a zillion times more powerful, so lets not impede outbound > progress by a bizarre inability work together coherently, all we > have to do > is work either side of the standard (as stated already). > > For those who think real collaboration isn't possible in this > realm, along > the lines I espouse, do note this fact: there isn't a single > company on this > planet that could digest a modicum of the potential of Linked Data > (we are > dealing with a fractal space), so we aren't in a zero sum competitive > marketplace, the cake is simply too BIG! Thus, co-opetition (as > articulate > by Ray Noorda eons ago) and symbiosis are going to be the defining > hallmarks > of all Linked Data oriented markeplaces as we move forward. > > Mike: > > Thanks for your comments, you've provide a nice outlet for me to > express > some of my pressing concerns re. our community --- I do believe we > have one > :-) > > > > -- > > > Regards, > > Kingsley Idehen Weblog: > http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen > <http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/%7Ekidehen> > President & CEO > OpenLink Software Web: http://www.openlinksw.com > > > > > > > > > > David Huynh wrote: > >> Kingsley, > >> > >> Thanks for the resources and the detailed explanation! Looks > like all > >> the pieces are there! > >> > >> David > >> > >> Kingsley Idehen wrote: > >>> David Huynh wrote: > >>>> Thanks for the link, Juan. > >>>> > >>>> Just curious, even if I know SPARQL, how do I (as a new user) > know > >>>> which properties and types there are in the data? And what > URIs to > >>>> use for what? > >>> David, > >>> > >>> Not speaking for Jaun, but seeking to answer the question you > posed. > >>> > >>> Our iSPARQL interface takes the view that: > >>> > >>> 1. You lookup vocabularies and ontologies of interest before > >>> constructing triple patterns since the terms need to come from > somewhere > >>> 2. You then you use the ontology/vocabulary tree to drag and drop > >>> classes over Subject and Object nodes > >>> 3. Do the same thing re. properties by selecting them and dropping > >>> them over the connectors (predicates) > >>> 4. Repeat the above until you've completely painted an SPO > graph of > >>> what you seek. > >>> > >>> BTW - the pattern in steps 2-4 above originated from RDF > Author, and > >>> we simply adopted it for SPARQL (following a skype session I > had with > >>> Danbri years ago re. the need for SPARQL QBE). Note: RDF Author > >>> allowed you to write Triples directly into RDF information > resources > >>> via their URLs. Which means the same UI works fine for SPARUL > (writing > >>> to Quad Store via its internal Graph IRI or Web Information > Resource > >>> URL). > >>> > >>> Links: > >>> > >>> 1. http://rdfweb.org/people/damian/RDFAuthor/Tutorial/ -- RDF > Author > >>> > >>> Kingsley > >>>> > >>>> David > >>>> > >>>> Juan Sequeda wrote: > >>>>> You may want to check out a tool that we are working on: SQUIN > >>>>> > >>>>> http://squin.informatik.hu-berlin.de/SQUIN/ > >>>>> > >>>>> Juan Sequeda, Ph.D Student > >>>>> Dept. of Computer Sciences > >>>>> The University of Texas at Austin > >>>>> www.juansequeda.com <http://www.juansequeda.com> > <http://www.juansequeda.com> > >>>>> www.semanticwebaustin.org <http://www.semanticwebaustin.org> > <http://www.semanticwebaustin.org> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 9:18 PM, David Huynh > <dfhuynh@alum.mit.edu <mailto:dfhuynh@alum.mit.edu> > >>>>> <mailto:dfhuynh@alum.mit.edu <mailto:dfhuynh@alum.mit.edu>>> > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi all, > >>>>> > >>>>> Admittedly this is somewhat of a tease and shameless > >>>>> self-promotion :-) but I think there are a few interesting > >>>>> concepts in the query editor for Freebase that I've been > working > >>>>> on that can be very useful for querying and consuming > LOD data > >>>>> sets: > >>>>> > >>>>> http://www.freebase.com/app/queryeditor/about > >>>>> > >>>>> Or maybe I missed it totally--is there anything similar for > >>>>> writing SPARQL queries over LOD? > >>>>> > >>>>> Cheers, > >>>>> > >>>>> David > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > -- > > Thanks, > -sherman > > I pray that you may prosper in all things and be healthy, even as your > soul prospers > (3 John 1:2) -- Regards, Kingsley Idehen Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen President & CEO OpenLink Software Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Received on Thursday, 23 April 2009 22:41:30 UTC