- From: Aldo Bucchi <aldo.bucchi@gmail.com>
- Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 18:15:58 -0400
- To: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
- Cc: public-lod@w3.org
Kingsley, On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote: > Aldo Bucchi wrote: >> >> Hi guys, >> >> I didn't find that post even challenging ( and as some of you might >> know I really like to argue ), because it makes a fundamental mistake >> and all drips from there: >> >> Do the manufacturers of, say, a new form of carbon nanotubes, use it >> as material for their own tools? >> >> Well, the answer is: not necessarily (and most probably, not at all). >> At least not in its raw form. It needs processing, it might be more >> expensive and the tools probably won't make the job better than the >> old ones. >> But the material is still better than alluminium, but tools are >> complex and require other skills that these developers need not >> necessarily have. It needs to take its place on the low level of a >> complex industry and value will eventually flourish. >> >> This is not different than Linked Data in this context. >> So, why can someone come to such blunt observation by relating creator >> dogfooding to the ultimate value of the technology? >> >> One could argue that this is closely related to the semantic "curse". >> >> The answer appears when you try to answer this simple question: >> * How is this material better? >> >> Which inevitably leads you, at least, to: >> * What do these materials have in common? >> * What specific qualities of value, present in both, are being improved? >> >> We only recently did that for Linked Data! >> So, the fundamental and shared flaw here has been to attribute a >> "magical", one-of-a-kind nature to something instead of characterizing >> it in terms of the previously existing alternatives, which results in >> confusion and... well, what do you expect if we start from there ;) >> >> He might be right that there were mistakes, but the real flaws were >> related to non-specific communication from the SW community ( there >> was not clear definition of the "what is this", "what does it compare >> to" and "why its better" ) and then a lack of deep analysis on part of >> the writer, who got stuck in his myopia and is calling carbon nanotube >> developers "snake oil" salesmen because they don't use the material in >> their labs. >> >> However, I do believe in dogfooding and I do it mostly for personal >> purposes. But one thing is to support it, another to demand it. >> >> OTOH. I like to think that these weren't mistakes. I mean, that the >> time this project took to lift off due to poor communicational >> strategies was not in vain. >> It would have been awfully hard and controversial to explain Linked >> Data in terms of distributed database technology back in the days. >> While it would have been certainly understood by a much larger >> audience, in terms of its development it probably would have entered a >> state of enthropy and evolved into several JSR kind of process, not to >> mention strategic oppositions from industry leaders and the inevitable >> competition ( which, when it comes to standardization processes, is >> not usually welcome ). >> > > Aldo, > > No argument re. the above, as you know anyhow :-) >> >> In more concrete terms. We didn't give M$ a chance to create "RDF-MS >> Edition" by staying off the radar. >> ( I hope so ) >> > > Hmm. ADO.NET's Entity Frameworks is RDF-MS salvo #1 > > Project "M" is salvo #2. > > They get it right at #3 and by then it will be them playing well with the > Linked Data Web. > > IE is no doable on the Linked Data Web :-) Ah good examples. Now, regarding IE. Of course it is not the same game so their trick would have been different... But how about Windows Live + Semantic Office + a centralized registry to provide IDs for things. I agree that they will now have to play along with Linked Data web. But they didn't see it coming, if they had... ( well we'll never know I'm just fantasizing here ). > >> Semantic was a great codename, but for the wrong reasons! >> >> > > Great codename for a great Thing. > Stinker of a name for discerning meaning of the Thing :-) Semantically correct, but comunicationally impaired ;) > > Anyway, Semantic Web issues are now "water under the bridge" in my world > view, the big MO is behind Linked Data and we should simply carry this into > related and vital realms such as OWL (the TBox side is very important), but > do so with pragmatism and coherence. We know this works, based on the Linked > Data journey experience. > > This community has succeeded were alternative approaches have failed. We > must never forget that when moving forward. Yes I agree, this is old stuff. I was just looking back for a second. There are so many things I never got to say that I sometimes try to slip them in here. I have to admit that regarding the *Macro* TBox aspect I am only now starting to pay attention. My imagination needs some more training to understand where this is going to take us in the mid term. ( I have groked the ABox aspect for 5 years now, but the other one quickly leads me to AI and out of my comfort zone ). This community is amazing ;) I would put all my chips on the table for you anytime now. ( wait... I already am! ) A. > > Kingsley >> >> Regards, >> A >> >> On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 10:00 AM, Tom Heath <tom.heath@talis.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> Hi Daniel, >>> >>> 2009/4/9 Daniel Schwabe <dschwabe@inf.puc-rio.br>: >>> >>>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> this may be old stuff, but I was surprised to read >>>> >>>> http://www.intelligententerprise.com/blog/archives/2009/02/semantic_web_sn.html... >>>> >>> >>> Me too! >>> >>> >>>> >>>> He does have some points... >>>> >>> >>> In 99% of cases with respect to me he doesn't ;) >>> >>> As I say in my response on his blog (copied into that post of mine >>> that Juan refers to) I agree that we, the Semantic Web community, have >>> not always done as much as we could in the dog food department, but >>> that has been changing rapidly since 2006 and we should keep >>> up/increase the pace. >>> >>> I won't comment on that blog post any further here; it's already >>> sapped too many hours of my life :) >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Tom. >>> >>> -- >>> Dr Tom Heath >>> Researcher >>> Platform Division >>> Talis Information Ltd >>> T: 0870 400 5000 >>> W: http://www.talis.com/ >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > > > Regards, > > Kingsley Idehen Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen > President & CEO OpenLink Software Web: http://www.openlinksw.com > > > > > > -- Aldo Bucchi U N I V R Z Office: +56 2 795 4532 Mobile:+56 9 7623 8653 skype:aldo.bucchi http://www.univrz.com/ http://aldobucchi.com/ PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION This message is only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. 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Received on Friday, 10 April 2009 22:16:39 UTC