- From: Young,Jeff (OR) <jyoung@oclc.org>
- Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 17:32:02 -0500
- To: "Tillett, Barbara" <btil@loc.gov>, "Neubert Joachim" <J.Neubert@zbw.eu>, "Antoine Isaac" <aisaac@few.vu.nl>
- Cc: "public-lld" <public-lld@w3.org>
Barbara, For the sake of comparison/contrast, VIAF will support skos:prefLabel/altLabel alongside rdaGr2:preferred/variantNameForTheFoo properties for naming purposes. IMO, we need to support both because closed-world models like FR/RDA need to interoperate with increasingly popular open-world models like SKOS/FOAF/BIBO. Using skos:Concept/skos:ConceptScheme/foaf:focus as higher-level abstractions should make this possible. Jeff > -----Original Message----- > From: Tillett, Barbara [mailto:btil@loc.gov] > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 12:46 PM > To: Young,Jeff (OR); Neubert Joachim; Antoine Isaac > Cc: public-lld > Subject: RE: VIAF contributor model > > VIAF intentionally is to link the preferred forms of names for entities > from around the world, so there will be several linked "preferred > names" depending on the cultural environment > (language/script/cataloging rules/policies) from which the contributed > data comes. Hopefully each can be clearly identified by extensions to > the URIs so machines will know which to prefer/choose for display in > various contexts. > > Is SKOS really the right way to go for names of persons or corporate > bodies? It seems strange to me, but I'm hoping to learn more from all > of the conversations. (Sorry I just joined the list yesterday!) - > Barbara Tillett > > -----Original Message----- > From: public-lld-request@w3.org [mailto:public-lld-request@w3.org] On > Behalf Of Young,Jeff (OR) > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 10:35 AM > To: Neubert Joachim; Antoine Isaac > Cc: public-lld > Subject: RE: VIAF contributor model > > Joachim, > > Unfortunately, no... At least for now. The problem is this SKOS > integrity condition on skos:prefLabel: > > http://www.w3.org/TR/skos-reference/#S14 > > Because VIAF aggregates authority records from a variety of sources, > there is no clear way to choose yet. > > Jeff > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Neubert Joachim [mailto:J.Neubert@zbw.eu] > > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 10:26 AM > > To: Young,Jeff (OR); Antoine Isaac > > Cc: public-lld > > Subject: AW: VIAF contributor model > > > > Hi Jeff, > > > > I suppose > > > > > <http://viaf.org/ontology/1.1/#hasEstablishedForm> > > > rdfs:subPropertyOf skosxl:altLabel ; > > > > should have been > > > > <http://viaf.org/ontology/1.1/#hasEstablishedForm> > > rdfs:subPropertyOf skosxl:prefLabel ; > > > > - correct? > > > > Cheers, Joachim > > > > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > > > Von: Young,Jeff (OR) [mailto:jyoung@oclc.org] > > > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. November 2010 14:48 > > > An: Antoine Isaac > > > Cc: Neubert Joachim; public-lld > > > Betreff: RE: VIAF contributor model > > > > > > Antoine, > > > > > > I like your suggestion to update the current VIAF ontology with > > > subclass/subproperty to "standard vocabularies". > > > > > > Here is a mockup of some triples I imagine adding to the next > > > ontology version: > > > > > > <http://viaf.org/ontology/1.1/#AuthorityAgency> > > > rdfs:subClassOf foaf:Organization . > > > > > > <http://viaf.org/ontology/1.1/#NameAuthorityCluster> > > > rdfs:subClassOf skos:Concept . > > > > > > <http://viaf.org/ontology/1.1/#Heading> > > > rdfs:subClassOf skosxl:Label . > > > > > > <http://viaf.org/ontology/1.1/#hasEstablishedForm> > > > rdfs:subPropertyOf skosxl:altLabel ; > > > rdfs:domain > > > <http://viaf.org/ontology/1.1/#NameAuthorityCluster> ; > > > rdfs:range http://viaf.org/ontology/1.1/#Heading . > > > > > > <http://viaf.org/ontology/1.1/#hasXrefAlternate> > > > rdfs:subPropertyOf skosxl:altLabel . > > > rdfs:domain > > > <http://viaf.org/ontology/1.1/#NameAuthorityCluster> ; > > > rdfs:range <http://viaf.org/ontology/1.1/#Heading> . > > > > > > I will hold off on adding the following "contributor model" > > > triples until later. > > > > > > <http://viaf.org/ontology/1.1/#NameAuthority> > > > rdfs:subClassOf skos:Concept . > > > > > > <http://viaf.org/ontology/1.1/#clusters> > > > rdfs:subPropertyOf skos:exactMatch . > > > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Antoine Isaac [mailto:aisaac@few.vu.nl] > > > > Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 12:16 PM > > > > To: Young,Jeff (OR) > > > > Cc: Neubert Joachim; public-lld > > > > Subject: Re: VIAF contributor model > > > > > > > > Hi Jeff, > > > > > > > > I'm not sure that everyone agreed explicitly with the > "contributor" > > > > model. We agreed on using SKOS with other required stuff, but if > > > > you're going to have this perspective combined with another > > > one, maybe > > > > we should re-visit our judgments ;-) > > > > > > > > In fact the present VIAF vocabulary is good in the sense > > > that it keeps > > > > explicit track of what VIAF does with the original data. > > > There is this > > > > aggregation process going on, and it may be harmful to have > > > this mis- > > > > represented in the data. It will be cumbersome to have the > > > aggregated > > > > "local" concepts and the one resulting from the aggregation > > > together, > > > > especially if both have the same type. Which one should a data > > > > consumer focus on? > > > > > > > > I won't be too detailed here, as I don't think my understanding > on > > > > your complete new proposal is precise enough. Two general > > > remarks, though: > > > > > > > > - in the Europeana Data Model [1] we use ORE proxies [2] in > > > a way that > > > > can deal with your aggregation problem. This is fairly > cumbersome, > > > > though. Apparently there's no free lunch on trying to solve this > > > > :- > > ) > > > > > > > > - as mentioned in my previous mail, hatever be your modelling > > > > decision, I'd favour an approach to vocabulary > > > interoperability that > > > > relies on explicit subclass/subproperty (or equivalent > > > class/property) > > > > axioms to standard vocabularies. Directly letting your current > > > > VIAF constructs "go away" (if I understand well that expression) > > > > seems dangerous, as it hides the original rationale of the data. > > > > Linking back to our application profiles discussion last week, > > > > keeping explicit your positioning VIAF as an AP of > > > SKOS/FOAF/whatwever seems > > > > good :-) > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > Antoine > > > > > > > > [1] http://version1.europeana.eu/web/europeana- > > > > project/technicaldocuments/, see "EDM Data Model Primer" > > > > [2] http://www.openarchives.org/ore/1.0/datamodel#Proxies > > > > > > > > > I’m happy to hear so much agreement on the VIAF contributor > > model. > > > > Given this, I would like to propose a VIAF aggregation model to > go > > > > with it. > > > > > > > > > > To recap the contributor model, VIAF would mint a > > > skos:ConceptScheme > > > > URI for each “source” and a skos:Concept for each > > > contributed “record”. > > > > This would help us clarify the > > > > http://viaf.org/ontology/1.1/#AuthorityAgency class and do > > > away with > > > > http://viaf.org/ontology/1.1/#NameAuthority (which are > effectively > > > > contributed skos:Concepts). If the source already conforms to the > > > > “contributor model”, then VIAF can reuse their > > > skos:ConceptScheme and > > > > skos:Concept identifiers. > > > > > > > > > > IMO, VIAF itself should be remodeled as a skos:ConceptScheme > > > > something like this: > > > > > > > > > > <http://viaf.org/ontology/1.2/#skos:ConceptScheme> > > > > > > > > > > rdf:type skos:ConceptScheme . > > > > > > > > > > This would allow us to do away with > > > > http://viaf.org/ontology/1.1/#NameAuthorityCluster (which are > > > > effectively VIAF skos:Concepts). For example: > > > > > > > > > > <http://viaf.org/viaf/108389263/#skos:Concept> > > > > > > > > > > rdf:type skos:Concept ; > > > > > > > > > > skos:inScheme > > > > <http://viaf.org/ontology/1.2/#skos:ConceptScheme>. > > > > > > > > > > As mentioned, this would allow contributed and VIAF > > > skos:Concepts to > > > > be related (clustered) using skos:exactMatch in a hub and spoke > > > > pattern. > > > > > > > > > > In the “contributor model”, ConceptSchemes should be free > > > to choose > > > > SKOS or SKOSXL prefLabel/altLabel, but VIAF will probably > > > use SKOSXL > > > > exclusively to encourage reconciliation with the FRSAD model. The > > > > http://viaf.org/ontology/1.1/#Heading and its subclasses > > > could then go > > > > away in favor of skosxl:Label. If necessary, VIAF could > > > produce both > > > > literal and object labels, but it would be nice if we could > > > avoid this > > > > duplication. > > > > > > > > > > Regarding FRSAD, we need to beware that skos:inScheme is > > typically > > > > attached to skos:Concept whereas FRSAD wants to attach it to the > > > > skosxl:Label. SKOS doesn’t specify a domain for skos:inScheme, so > > > > should we discuss the need/possibility of doing both? > > > > > > > > > > Also note that VIAF depends on its contributors for > > skosxl:Labels. > > > > Although the contributed skos:Concept spokes are expected to have > > > > a prefLabel, the VIAF skos:Concept hub currently has no mechanism > > > > for choosing a preference. This presumably means that all > > > > concept/label connections at the hub level will be > skosxl:altLabel > > > > in the next release. We tried to solve this in version 1.1 using > > > > custom properties, but I’m skeptical this is the correct path. > > > Consequently, > > > > they will probably be abandoned rather than updated in the > > > next release: > > > > > > > > > > http://viaf.org/ontology/1.1/#hasEstablishedForm > > > > > > > > > > http://viaf.org/ontology/1.1/#hasXrefAlternate > > > > > > > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Neubert Joachim [mailto:J.Neubert@zbw.eu] > > > > > *Sent:* Friday, October 29, 2010 5:47 AM > > > > > *To:* Young,Jeff (OR); public-lld > > > > > *Subject:* AW: VIAF contributor model > > > > > > > > > > Hi Jeff, > > > > > > > > > > +1 for your approach using skos:Concept. > > > > > > > > > > One key advantage I see in this is that it can be adapted and > > used > > > > easily inside and outside the library world, with standard > > > tools which > > > > support homegrown keyword lists or open or custom taxonomies of > > > > any kind. An important area for such tools are autosuggest > > > > services for keyword selection, hinting from skos:altLabel to > > > skos:prefLabel, with > > > > support for skos:hiddenLabel if necessary (you can find an > example > > > > implementation of such a service at http://zbw.eu/beta/stw- > > > > ws/examples/suggest.html). > > > > > > > > > > I'd also suggest to add a skos:prefLabel to every VIAF cluster. > > > > skos:prefLabel is meant to "unambiguously represent this concept > > > > within a KOS and its applications" (SKOS Primer). Especially in > > > > the case personal names, this encourages building unique literals > > > > like "Chen, Li, 1954-" (different from "Chen, Li, 1810-1882") in > > > > VIAF or "Müller, E. 19..-.... traducteur" in BNF or "Schmidt, > > > > Hans > > > (Musiker)" in GND. > > > > > > > > > > If I got it right, you already did a lot of > > > disambiguation for your > > > > viaf:Headings. Adding a skos:prefLabel to every VIAF cluster > would > > > > express clear commitment to strive for uniqueness and also > > > allow easy > > > > reuse by tools (where skosxl:Label properties are > > > significantly more > > > > difficult to handle), and thus could be tremendously useful. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, Joachim > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > > > > > - > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > > > - > > - > > > > - > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > > > - > > - > > > > - > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > > > - > > - > > > > - > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > > > - > > - > > > > - > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > > > - > > - > > > > - > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > > > - > > - > > > > - > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > > > - > > - > > > > - > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > > > - > > - > > > > - > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > > > - > > - > > > > - > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > > > - > > - > > > > - > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > > > - > > - > > > > - > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > > > - > > - > > > > - > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > - > > > > - > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > *Von:* public-lld-request@w3.org > > > [mailto:public-lld-request@w3.org] > > > > *Im Auftrag von *Young,Jeff (OR) > > > > > *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 28. Oktober 2010 23:21 > > > > > *An:* public-lld > > > > > *Betreff:* VIAF contributor model > > > > > > > > > > The VIAF RDF is badly in need of an update. For example, > > > > > VIAF has > > > > a bad habit of assuming that “clusters” automatically map > > > to “Person”. > > > > Upgrading it to recognize the reality of “Organization” and > > > perhaps a > > > > few others shouldn’t be too hard, but there are other issues > worth > > > > considering. > > > > > > > > > > After closer inspection, it looks like the VIAF ontology > > > > <http://viaf.org/ontology/1.1/> reinvents some key aspects > > > of SKOS. It > > > > would be nice to start factoring out these misalignments ASAP. > > > > This group’s input on the possibilities would be greatly > appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > Background: VIAF started out using foaf:Person for its > “real > > > > world objects”, switched to skos:Concept, and was starting > > > to wobble > > > > back to foaf:Person. At that point, the decision was made > > > to identify > > > > both for the sake of argument: > > > > > > > > > > http://viaf.org/viaf/102333412/#foaf:Person > > > > > > > > > > http://viaf.org/viaf/102333412/#skos:Concept > > > > > > > > > > It was far from clear at the time whether both made sense, > > > > separate identity was necessary, or what property should be used > > > > to connect them. > > > > > > > > > > At the F2F, Martin Malmsten (who is involved with > > > contributions > > > > to VIAF via SELIBR) pointed out the new foaf:focus element > > > that seems > > > > to do a very good job of rationalizing for the connection. > > > > > > > > > > http://xmlns.com/foaf/spec/#term_focus > > > > > > > > > > Like VIAF, SELIBR also coins URIs for foaf:Person and > > > > skos:Concept and this seems like a good model for other > > > contributors > > > > and VIAF itself to follow. > > > > > > > > > > I’m also inclined to believe that skos:ConceptScheme should > > be > > > > used to differentiate different “sources” in VIAF. This could and > > > > probably should be done regardless of whether the contributors > > > > understand or publish SKOS themselves. The attached UML is > > > intended to > > > > show how this could be conceptualized. This presumably > > > requires some > > > > explanation, but hopefully a picture is worth a thousand words. > > > > > > > > > > I’m also pretty convinced that the > > > > http://viaf.org/ontology/1.1/#Heading class needs to be bound to > > > > skosxl:Label class in some way (rdfs:subClassOf?). I don’t think > > > > it can completely go away, though, because of inconvenient > > > restrictions > > > > on the skosxsl:prefLabel and skosxl:altLabel. > > > > > > > > > > Thoughts or questions? > > > > > > > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > Jeffrey A. Young > > > > > Software Architect > > > > > OCLC Research, Mail Code 410 > > > > > OCLC Online Computer Library Center, Inc. > > > > > 6565 Kilgour Place > > > > > Dublin, OH 43017-3395 > > > > > www.oclc.org <http://www.oclc.org> > > > > > > > > > > Voice: 614-764-4342 > > > > > Voice: 800-848-5878, ext. 4342 > > > > > Fax: 614-718-7477 > > > > > Email: jyoung@oclc.org <mailto:jyoung@oclc.org> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Received on Monday, 8 November 2010 22:33:17 UTC